NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread sten rulz
Found some interesting news on one of the Australia news websites. http://www.scmagazine.com.au/News/368527,nsa-able-to-compromise-cisco-juniper-huawei-switches.aspx Regards, Steven.

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Saku Ytti
On (2013-12-30 20:30 +1100), sten rulz wrote: Found some interesting news on one of the Australia news websites. http://www.scmagazine.com.au/News/368527,nsa-able-to-compromise-cisco-juniper-huawei-switches.aspx The quality of this data is too damn low. Not as bad as this though,

The state of TACACS+

2013-12-30 Thread Robert Drake
Ever since first using it I've always liked tacacs+. Having said that I've grown to dislike some things about it recently. I guess, there have always been problems but I've been willing to leave them alone. I don't have time to give the code a real deep inspection, so I'm interested in

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Shawn Wilson
Saku Ytti s...@ytti.fi wrote: On (2013-12-30 20:30 +1100), sten rulz wrote: I really think we're doing disservice to an issue which might be at scale of human-rights issue, by spamming media with 0 data news. Where is this backdoor? How does it work? How can I recreate on my devices? I don't

Re: The state of TACACS+

2013-12-30 Thread Jonathan Lassoff
I don't understand why vendors and operators keep turning to TACACS. It seems like they're often looking to Cisco as some paragon of best security practices. It's a vulnerable protocol, but some times the only thing to choose from. One approach to secure devices that can support only TACACS or

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Saku Ytti
On (2013-12-30 06:12 -0500), Shawn Wilson wrote: I don't really want you to know how to recreate it until the companies have had a chance to fix said issue. I'd hope, if such issues were disclosed, those news outlets would go through proper channels of disclosure before going to press with

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 30, 2013, at 5:06 PM, Saku Ytti s...@ytti.fi wrote: The quality of this data is too damn low. The #1 way that Cisco routers and switches are compromised is brute-forcing against an unsecured management plane, with username 'cisco' and password 'cisco. The #1 way that Juniper and

Re: The state of TACACS+

2013-12-30 Thread Saku Ytti
On (2013-12-30 05:06 -0500), Robert Drake wrote: TACACS+ was proposed as a standard to the IETF. They never adopted it and let the standards draft expire in 1998. Since then there If continued existence of TACACS+ can be justified at IETF level, in parallel with radius and diameter, I have

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 30, 2013, at 6:18 PM, Saku Ytti s...@ytti.fi wrote: I welcome the short-term havok and damage of such disclose if it would be anywhere near the magnitude implied, it would create pressure to change things. This is the type of change we're likely to see, IMHO:

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Ray Soucy
Even more outrageous than the domestic spying is the arrogance to think that they can protect the details on backdoors into critical infrastructure. They may have basically created the framework for an Internet-wide kill switch, that likely also affects every aspect of modern communication.

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread shawn wilson
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Ray Soucy r...@maine.edu wrote: I hope Cisco, Juniper, and others respond quickly with updated images for all platforms affected before the details leak. So, if this plays out nice (if true, it won't), the fix will come months before the disclosure. Think, if

Re: The state of TACACS+

2013-12-30 Thread Christopher Morrow
I don't think radius nor kerberos nor ssh with certificates supports command authorization, do they? On Dec 30, 2013 6:33 AM, Saku Ytti s...@ytti.fi wrote: On (2013-12-30 05:06 -0500), Robert Drake wrote: TACACS+ was proposed as a standard to the IETF. They never adopted it and let the

Re: The state of TACACS+

2013-12-30 Thread Christopher Morrow
Nor accounting... On Dec 30, 2013 8:48 AM, Christopher Morrow christopher.mor...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think radius nor kerberos nor ssh with certificates supports command authorization, do they? On Dec 30, 2013 6:33 AM, Saku Ytti s...@ytti.fi wrote: On (2013-12-30 05:06 -0500), Robert

Re: The state of TACACS+

2013-12-30 Thread Saku Ytti
On (2013-12-30 08:49 -0500), Christopher Morrow wrote: Nor accounting... I think this is probably sufficient justification for TACACS+. I'm not sure if command authorization is sufficient, as you can deliver group via radius which maps to authorized commands. But if you must support accounting,

Re: The state of TACACS+

2013-12-30 Thread Christian Kratzer
Hi, On Mon, 30 Dec 2013, Christopher Morrow wrote: I don't think radius nor kerberos nor ssh with certificates supports command authorization, do they? it is with radius afaik ... Greetings Christian -- Christian Kratzer CK Software GmbH Email: c...@cksoft.de

Re: The state of TACACS+

2013-12-30 Thread cb.list6
On Dec 30, 2013 9:01 AM, Saku Ytti s...@ytti.fi wrote: On (2013-12-30 08:49 -0500), Christopher Morrow wrote: Nor accounting... I think this is probably sufficient justification for TACACS+. I'm not sure if command authorization is sufficient, as you can deliver group via radius which

Re: The state of TACACS+

2013-12-30 Thread Javier Henderson
On Dec 30, 2013, at 9:01 AM, Christian Kratzer ck-li...@cksoft.de wrote: Hi, On Mon, 30 Dec 2013, Christopher Morrow wrote: I don't think radius nor kerberos nor ssh with certificates supports command authorization, do they? it is with radius afaik ... RADIUS does not support command

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 30, 2013, at 8:07 PM, Ray Soucy r...@maine.edu wrote: I hope Cisco, Juniper, and others respond quickly with updated images for all platforms affected before the details leak. During my time at Cisco, I was involved deeply enough with various platform teams as well as PSIRT, etc., to

RE: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Warren Bailey
I'd love to know how they were getting in flight wifi. Sent from my Mobile Device. Original message From: sten rulz stenr...@gmail.com Date: 12/30/2013 12:32 AM (GMT-09:00) To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches Found some

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:34:52 +, Dobbins, Roland said: My assumption is that this allegation about Cisco and Juniper is the result of non-specialists reading about lawful intercept for the first time, and failing to do their homework. That does raise an interesting question. What

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Lee Howard
From: Matthew Petach mpet...@netflight.com Date: Saturday, December 21, 2013 10:55 PM To: Lee Howard l...@asgard.org Cc: Jamie Bowden ja...@photon.com, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com, m...@kenweb.org m...@kenweb.org, nanog@nanog.org nanog@nanog.org So there's an interesting question. You

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:44 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: What percentage of Cisco gear that supports a CALEA lawful intercept mode is installed in situations where CALEA doesn't apply, and thus there's a high likelyhood that said support is misconfigured and

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 30, 2013, at 11:03 PM, Dobbins, Roland rdobb...@arbor.net wrote: AFAIK, it must be explicitly enabled in order to be functional. It isn't the sort of thing which is enabled by default, nor can it be enabled without making explicit configuration changes. It's also possible they're

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Michael Thomas
On 12/30/2013 08:03 AM, Dobbins, Roland wrote: On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:44 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: What percentage of Cisco gear that supports a CALEA lawful intercept mode is installed in situations where CALEA doesn't apply, and thus there's a high

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Enno Rey
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 04:03:07PM +, Dobbins, Roland wrote: On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:44 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: What percentage of Cisco gear that supports a CALEA lawful intercept mode is installed in situations where CALEA doesn't apply, and thus

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Leo Bicknell
On Dec 24, 2013, at 8:15 AM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: Why? You say, The protocol suite doesn't meet my needs; I need default gateway in DHCPv6. So the IETF WG must change for you to deploy IPv6. Why? Why must the people who want it justify to _you_? This is fundamental part I've

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Sam Moats
This might be an interesting example of it's (mis)use. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_wiretapping_case_2004%E2%80%932005 Sam Moats On 2013-12-30 11:16, Enno Rey wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 04:03:07PM +, Dobbins, Roland wrote: On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:44 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Jeremy Bresley
On 12/30/2013 9:05 AM, Warren Bailey wrote: I'd love to know how they were getting in flight wifi. Sent from my Mobile Device. Original message From: sten rulz stenr...@gmail.com Date: 12/30/2013 12:32 AM (GMT-09:00) To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: NSA able to compromise

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Warren Bailey
We had a hell of a time finding anything that supported the calea stuff past a 7206. This was for an in flight global wifi network, hence my original concern. Also note that when we did get it to work, it pretty much didn't. Or I should say.. It worked when it wanted to. How they are mapping

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Warren Bailey
I built the other. Sent from my Mobile Device. Original message From: Jeremy Bresley b...@brezworks.com Date: 12/30/2013 7:34 AM (GMT-09:00) To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches On 12/30/2013 9:05 AM, Warren Bailey wrote:

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 30, 2013, at 11:16 PM, Enno Rey e...@ernw.de wrote: at least back in 2007 it could be enabled/configured by SNMP RW access [see slide 43 of the presentation referenced in this post http://www.insinuator.net/2013/07/snmp-reflected-amplification-ddos-attacks/] so knowing the term

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 30, 2013, at 11:18 PM, Sam Moats s...@circlenet.us wrote: This might be an interesting example of it's (mis)use. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_wiretapping_case_2004%E2%80%932005 That's one of the cases I know about; it was utilized via Ericsson gear.

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Ray Soucy
Looking more at the actual leaked information it seems that if the NSA is working with companies, it's not anything the companies are likely aware of. The common form of infection seems to be though software updates performed by administrators (through the NSA hijacking web traffic). They are

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Randy Bush
You say, The protocol suite doesn't meet my needs; I need default gateway in DHCPv6. So the IETF WG must change for you to deploy IPv6. Why? this is actually a non-trivial barrier to enterprise deployment and the ietf has been in stubborn denial for years. when an it department has been

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Justin M. Streiner
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013, Lee Howard wrote: I used to run an enterprise network. It was very different from an ISP network. I didn't say, You're wrong! I said, What's missing? default route information via DHCPv6. That's what I'm still waiting for. Why? You say, The protocol suite doesn't meet

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Ryan Harden
On Dec 24, 2013, at 8:15 AM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: default route information via DHCPv6. That's what I'm still waiting for. Why? You say, The protocol suite doesn't meet my needs; I need default gateway in DHCPv6. So the IETF WG must change for you to deploy IPv6. Why? Lee

RE: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Lorell Hathcock
NANOG: Here's the really scary question for me. Would it be possible for NSA-payload traffic that originates on our private networks that is destined for the NSA to go undetected by our IDS systems? For example tcpdump-based IDS systems like Snort has been rooted to ignore or not report packets

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread shawn wilson
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Lorell Hathcock lor...@hathcock.org wrote: NANOG: Here's the really scary question for me. Would it be possible for NSA-payload traffic that originates on our private networks that is destined for the NSA to go undetected by our IDS systems? Yup.

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Lee Howard
On 12/30/13 11:19 AM, Leo Bicknell bickn...@ufp.org wrote: On Dec 24, 2013, at 8:15 AM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: Why? You say, The protocol suite doesn't meet my needs; I need default gateway in DHCPv6. So the IETF WG must change for you to deploy IPv6. Why? Why must the people

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Ray Soucy
On a side note, I've been involved with organizing the New England regional Collegiate Cyber-Defense Competition for a while, and one our Red Team members was able to make a pretty convincing IOS rootkit using IOS TCL scripting to mask configuration from the students. I don't think any students

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Lee Howard
On 12/30/13 1:04 PM, Ryan Harden harde...@uchicago.edu wrote: On Dec 24, 2013, at 8:15 AM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: default route information via DHCPv6. That's what I'm still waiting for. Why? You say, The protocol suite doesn't meet my needs; I need default gateway in DHCPv6.

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Randy Bush
IIRC, Cisco threatened to sue if it was ever released you gotta love it. they will roll over and piss themselves for nsa and other who are violating every principle, but threaten paying customers who would report a hole. the question is what have these companies and gov people not violated?

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Marco Teixeira
Hi all, I've been watching this list for a couple weeks now and while risking beeing flamed, i just wanted to say that any network professional that puts any equipment into production without securing it against the kind of issues mentioned so far (cisco/cisco, snmp private, etc) is negligent and

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Ryan Harden
On Dec 30, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: 'Rewrite all of your tools and change your long standing business practices¹ is a very large barrier to entry to IPv6. If adding gateway as an optional field will help people get over that barrier, why not add it? Sure it

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread jim deleskie
There are many ways a backdoor could be used in a properly secured system. To think otherwise is a huge mistake. I can think of several ways, if tasked and given the resources of a large gov't that I would attack this problem. To assume that those tasked and focused only this type of solution

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Blake Dunlap
The better question is are you using RIP or ICMP to set gateways in your network now? If you don't use those now, why is RA a better solution in ipv6? -Blake On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Ryan Harden harde...@uchicago.edu wrote: On Dec 30, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Lee Howard
On 12/30/13 2:20 PM, Ryan Harden harde...@uchicago.edu wrote: On Dec 30, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: 'Rewrite all of your tools and change your long standing business practices¹ is a very large barrier to entry to IPv6. If adding gateway as an optional field

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Lee Howard
I'm not really an advocate for or against DHCP or RAs. I really just want to understand what feature is missing. From: Blake Dunlap iki...@gmail.com Date: Monday, December 30, 2013 3:19 PM To: Ryan Harden harde...@uchicago.edu Cc: Lee Howard l...@asgard.org, Jamie Bowden ja...@photon.com,

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Randy Bush
These are not backdoor issues, NSA related, whatever... This is noise. Trying to get this thread on track, can the original poster provide any proof of this so called ability of the so called inteligence agency beeing able to access cisco/juniper, taking into account that management access

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Clay Kossmeyer
Hi Folks - Clay Kossmeyer here from the Cisco PSIRT. We've published the following document in response to the original (Dec. 29) Der Spiegel article: http://tools.cisco.com/security/center/content/CiscoSecurityResponse/cisco-sr-20131229-der-spiegel and are investing the claims in the Dec.

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Owen DeLong
On Dec 30, 2013, at 8:19 AM, Leo Bicknell bickn...@ufp.org wrote: On Dec 24, 2013, at 8:15 AM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: Why? You say, The protocol suite doesn't meet my needs; I need default gateway in DHCPv6. So the IETF WG must change for you to deploy IPv6. Why? Why must

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Owen DeLong
On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:04 AM, Ryan Harden harde...@uchicago.edu wrote: On Dec 24, 2013, at 8:15 AM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: default route information via DHCPv6. That's what I'm still waiting for. Why? You say, The protocol suite doesn't meet my needs; I need default gateway

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Victor Kuarsingh
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: I'm not really an advocate for or against DHCP or RAs. I really just want to understand what feature is missing. From: Blake Dunlap iki...@gmail.com Date: Monday, December 30, 2013 3:19 PM To: Ryan Harden

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Randy Bush
Clay Kossmeyer here from the Cisco PSIRT. shoveling kitty litter as fast as you can, eh? http://tools.cisco.com/security/center/content/CiscoSecurityResponse/cisco-sr-20131229-der-spiegel The article does not discuss or disclose any Cisco product vulnerabilities. this is disengenuous at

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Sabri Berisha
Hi, you gotta love it. they will roll over and piss themselves for nsa and other who are violating every principle, but threaten paying customers who would report a hole. Don't forget that for C and J, the U.S. government is a large customer as well. Thanks, Sabri

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Leo Bicknell
On Dec 30, 2013, at 3:43 PM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: The current situation isn’t attributable to “the current IPv6 crowd” (whoever that is), it’s the current IETF consensus position. Changing that IETF consensus position is a matter of going through the IETF process and getting

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Leo Bicknell
On Dec 30, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: I'm not really an advocate for or against DHCP or RAs. I really just want to understand what feature is missing. I encourage you to try this simple experiment in your lab, because this happens all day long on corporate networks

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Leo Bicknell
On Dec 30, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Victor Kuarsingh vic...@jvknet.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: The better question is are you using RIP or ICMP to set gateways in your network now? I disagree that that's a better question. I'm not using RIP

Re: The state of TACACS+

2013-12-30 Thread Jimmy Hess
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 8:11 AM, Javier Henderson jav...@kjsl.org wrote: Given the problem of remote auth; the restriction of choice of protocols is dictated by what protocols the relying party device supports. This is the problem: You are at the mercy of your router vendor, to support the

Re: The state of TACACS+

2013-12-30 Thread Javier Henderson
On Dec 30, 2013, at 6:42 PM, Jimmy Hess mysi...@gmail.com wrote: How do you feel about having to wait 30 seconds between every command you enter to troubleshoot, to fail to the second server, if the TACACS or RADIUS system is nonresponsive, because the dumb router can't remember

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Sharif Torpis
On 12/30/2013 3:51 PM, Randy Bush wrote: Clay Kossmeyer here from the Cisco PSIRT. shoveling kitty litter as fast as you can, eh? http://tools.cisco.com/security/center/content/CiscoSecurityResponse/cisco-sr-20131229-der-spiegel The article does not discuss or disclose any Cisco product

Re: The state of TACACS+

2013-12-30 Thread Jimmy Hess
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Javier Henderson jav...@kjsl.org wrote: Are you talking about Cisco routers? The default timeout value for TACACS+ is five seconds, so I’m not sure where you’re coming up with thirty seconds, unless you have seven servers listed on the router and the first

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Owen DeLong
What the enterprise folks need is IPv6 champions, like yourself, like Lee, to user stand their use case that even if you don't end up deploying it on your own network you will show up at the IETF, or at least participate on the IETF mailing lists and help them get what they need, so IPv6

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Owen DeLong
You can accomplish the same thing in IPv4…. Plug in Sally’s PC with Internet Connection Sharing turned on and watch as her DHCP server takes over your network. Yes, you have to pay attention when you plug in a router just like you’d have to pay attention if you plugged in a DHCP server you

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Jared Mauch
On Dec 30, 2013, at 7:51 PM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: I have yet to see a use case from enterprise that actually requires RIO or default route in DHCPv6, and I have seen many many use cases. Most of them are, actually, better solved through education, so I tend to focus my

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Leo Bicknell
On Dec 30, 2013, at 6:56 PM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: You can accomplish the same thing in IPv4…. Plug in Sally’s PC with Internet Connection Sharing turned on and watch as her DHCP server takes over your network. No, the failure mode is still different. With IPv6 RA's, the

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 30, 2013, at 11:28 PM, Marco Teixeira ad...@marcoteixeira.com wrote: i just wanted to say that any network professional that puts any equipment into production without securing it against the kind of issues mentioned so far (cisco/cisco, snmp private, etc) is negligent and should be

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 31, 2013, at 12:00 AM, Ray Soucy r...@maine.edu wrote: So this isn't an issue of the NSA working with Cisco and Juniper to include back doors, it's an issue of the NSA modifying those releases after the fact though BIOS implants. Yes, I see this now, thanks. AFAICT, the Cisco boxes

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Jeff Kell
On 12/30/2013 8:16 PM, Leo Bicknell wrote: There's a reason why there's huge efforts to put RA guard in switches, and do cryptographic RA's. These are two admissions that the status quo does not work for many folks, but for some reason these two solutions get pushed over a simple DHCP router

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Randy Bush
So this isn't an issue of the NSA working with Cisco and Juniper to include back doors, it's an issue of the NSA modifying those releases after the fact though BIOS implants. Yes, I see this now, thanks. AFAICT, the Cisco boxes listed are ASAs and PIXes, which are essentially Linux PCs

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 31, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: you may want to read the more complete, well let's say extensive Thanks, Randy - now I see the JunOS stuff in there for J-series and M-series. --- Roland Dobbins

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Blake Dunlap
The cynic in me says that cisco switch/router gear isn't part of that report on clandestine backdoors, because they don't need said clandestine backdoors to access them... -Blake On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Dobbins, Roland rdobb...@arbor.net wrote: On Dec 31, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Randy

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:16 AM, Blake Dunlap iki...@gmail.com wrote: The cynic in me says that cisco switch/router gear isn't part of that report on clandestine backdoors, because they don't need said clandestine backdoors to access them... T-series is in there, too. It's also important to

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Sabri Berisha
Hi Roland. I don't know much about Juniper gear, but it appears that the Juniper boxes listed are similar in nature, albeit running FreeBSD underneath (correction welcome). With most Juniper gear, it is actually quite difficult to achieve wire-tapping on a large scale using something as

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message - From: Ray Soucy r...@maine.edu I hope when [if] the truth is learned it is a lot less prevalent than it sounds, but I'm not optimistic. This is why we need all infrastructure to be implemented using open standards, open hardware designs, and open source

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread William Waites
Is Ken Thompson turning over in his grave yet? I certainly hope not...

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Randy Bush
It's also important to keep in mind that all these purported documents refer to technologies which were supposedly available 5 years ago, based on the dates in the slides. assumptions that the TAO folk have been taking a long much-deserved sabbatical are probably naive the shocking revelation

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread [AP] NANOG
Sabri, As I was going through reading all these replies, the one thing that continued to poke at me was the requirement of the signed binaries and microcode. The same goes for many of the Cisco binaries, without direct assistance, which is unclear at this point through the cloud of smoke so to

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:59 AM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: assumptions that the TAO folk have been taking a long much-deserved sabbatical are probably naive Indeed; that is my point. These documents allege that the capabilities in question were present five years ago, which is an

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 31, 2013, at 10:38 AM, Sabri Berisha sa...@cluecentral.net wrote: Assuming M/MX/T series, you are correct that the foundation of the control-plane is a FreeBSD-based kernel. And the management plane, too? However, that control-plane talks to a forwarding-plane (PFE). The PFE runs

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Dobbins, Roland
On Dec 31, 2013, at 11:06 AM, [AP] NANOG na...@armoredpackets.com wrote: Then looking at things from the evil side though, if they owned the system which provides the signing then they could sign virtually anything they wish. Or if they owned *people* with the right level of access to do

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Victor Kuarsingh
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Leo Bicknell bickn...@ufp.org wrote: On Dec 30, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Victor Kuarsingh vic...@jvknet.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: The better question is are you using RIP or ICMP to set gateways in your

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread [AP] NANOG
Roland, I did fail to mention the HUMINT (Human Intelligence) side of things, thank you for bringing that up! -- Thank you, Robert Miller http://www.armoredpackets.com Twitter: @arch3angel On 12/30/13, 11:33 PM, Dobbins, Roland wrote: On Dec 31, 2013, at 11:06 AM, [AP] NANOG

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Blair Trosper
I'm torn on this. On one hand, it seems sinister. On the other, it's not only what the NSA is tasked with doing, but it's what you'd EXPECT them to be doing in the role as the NSA. I'm not saying it's right or wrong...it creeps me out a little, though...but these are the kinds of things we have

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Jeff Kell
On 12/30/2013 11:06 PM, [AP] NANOG wrote: As I was going through reading all these replies, the one thing that continued to poke at me was the requirement of the signed binaries and microcode. The same goes for many of the Cisco binaries, without direct assistance, which is unclear at this

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Jimmy Hess
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Blair Trosper blair.tros...@gmail.comwrote: I'm torn on this. On one hand, it seems sinister. On the other, it's not only what the NSA is tasked with doing, but it's what you'd EXPECT them to be doing in the role as the NSA. [snip] The NSA's role is not

RE: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Keith Medcalf
We're all getting far too conditioned for the click OK to proceed overload, and the sources aren't helping. If one embarks with deliberation upon a course of action which may entertain certain results then the intent to cause the result so obtained is, by implication, proved.

Re: NSA able to compromise Cisco, Juniper, Huawei switches

2013-12-30 Thread Blair Trosper
To supplement and amend what I said: These are the KINDS of things we want the NSA to do; however, the institutional oversight necessary to make sure it's Constitutional, warranted, and kept in bounds is woefully lacking (if any exists at all). Even FISA is unsatisfactory. At any rate, I agree

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Victor Kuarsingh
Leo, On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Leo Bicknell bickn...@ufp.org wrote: On Dec 30, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Lee Howard l...@asgard.org wrote: I'm not really an advocate for or against DHCP or RAs. I really just want to understand what feature is missing. I encourage you to try this

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread David Conrad
On Dec 30, 2013, at 9:29 PM, Victor Kuarsingh vic...@jvknet.com wrote: I think a new initiative to revive this concept will need to address the [negative] points from those previous experiences and contrast them to the operational benefits of having it available. I am willing to help out

Re: turning on comcast v6

2013-12-30 Thread Timothy Morizot
I've been in the process of rolling out IPv6 (again this night) across a very large, highly conservative, and very bureaucratic enterprise. (Roughly 100K employees. More than 600 distinct site. Yada. Yada.) I've had no issues whatsoever implementing the IPv6 RA+DHCPv6 model alongside the IPv4