Re: [R-pkg-devel] new maintainer for CRAN package XML
Dear Uwe, Did CRAN ever reach a decision here with a suitable volunteer (or group of volunteers) ? The state of XML came up again recently on mastodon, and it might be helpful to share an update if there is one. Thanks, as always, for all you and the rest of the team do for CRAN. Cheers, Dirk -- dirk.eddelbuettel.com | @eddelbuettel | e...@debian.org __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
Re: [R-pkg-devel] new maintainer for CRAN package XML
Dear Uwe Ligges, On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 15:50:44 +0100 Uwe Ligges wrote: > So we are looking for a person volunteering to take over 'XML'. > Please let us know if you are interested. Unless someone else has been discussing this with CRAN in private or had a package depending on XML and was planning to step up but forgot, I would like to volunteer. I'm assuming that the Omegahat page is best preserved in its current form for historical reasons, so instead I have prepared a Git repository and a page with an option to file issues on the Codeberg forge: https://codeberg.org/aitap/XML With the help of the amazing list members, I have also set up a virtual machine to run the reverse dependency checks, so it should be possible to avoid immediate breakage if I have to make any changes. That's the theory, at least. (Also, thank you for your reply to my question!) -- Best regards, Ivan __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
Re: [R-pkg-devel] new maintainer for CRAN package XML
On 23.01.2024 01:03, Lluís Revilla wrote: Dear Uwe and the CRAN team, Many thanks for maintaining the package for so long (>10 years!). I see the latest changes are in some internal C code related to updating the libxml2 library. In CRAN's experience, is this the highest time consuming task? Yes, and adapting the code to new compilers/toolchains. Note that the team only fixes urgent check issues. I have some questions about how the maintenance transfer will go: Would someone from the CRAN team help/review the new maintainer for some time? Or would there be a change in the "cre" role and that's all the further involvement of the CRAN team with the package (besides the excellent checks on CRAN)? Ideally the latter. Best, Uwe Ligges For anyone considering it, I analyzed a bit the situation of XML and RCurl: https://llrs.dev/post/2023/05/03/cran-maintained-packages/ In short, with ~300 direct dependencies, and many highly used, across CRAN and Bioconductor's packages. Kind regards, Lluís On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 at 15:51, Uwe Ligges wrote: Dear package developers, the CRAN team (and Professor Ripley in particular) has been the defacto maintainer of CRAN package 'XML'. Our hope was that maintainers of packages depending on XML will migrate to other packages for reading XML structures. This has not happened and we still see dozens of strong dependencies on XML. So we are looking for a person volunteering to take over 'XML'. Please let us know if you are interested. For the CRAN team, Uwe Ligges __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
Re: [R-pkg-devel] new maintainer for CRAN package XML
Some thoughts for what the next steps could be:
I could be wrong, but I doubt that there's someone out there that
wants to pick up 'XML' and start developing it beyond keeping the
lights on. I also think the community agrees that 'xml2' is the
recommended package to use for XML-related needs. If this can be
agreed upon, I think the best path forward would be to declare 'XML'
being deprecated. This is some that the current maintainer (CRAN Team)
could already do, but updating the document and the package
Description field to:
[WARNING: The 'XML' package is deprecated. Please do not add it as a
dependency to your R package.] Many approaches for both reading and
creating XML (and HTML) documents (including DTDs), both local and
accessible via HTTP or FTP. Also offers access to an 'XPath'
"interpreter".
That would at least help stopping the influx of new packages being
added that depends on XML, especially since not everyone might be
aware of the state of 'XML' and that 'xml2' exists as an alternative.
This also begs the question: Do we need a way to formally declare a
whole package being deprecated? Is this something that could be added
to the DESCRIPTION file? Deprecated: TRUE? Or something richer like
"Lifecycle: deprecated"? With such a mechanism in place, 'R CMD
check' could give a NOTE for deprecated dependencies. That could also
be a block for *new* CRAN submission; existing CRAN package should be
accepted ("grandfathered in"). With a richer {deprecation, ...,
defunct} vocabulary, we could produce WARNINGs and eventually ERRORs
too.
/Henrik
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 9:11 AM Heather Turner wrote:
>
> Re: guidance on how to migrate from XML to xml2, these notes from Daniel Nüst
> may be helpful:
> https://gist.github.com/nuest/3ed3b0057713eb4f4d75d11bb62f2d66.
>
> Best wishes,
> Heather
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, at 3:38 PM, Emmanuel Blondel wrote:
> > if XML is deprecated, then what would be the choice for a package
> > maintainer? Move to xml2 probably at some point I assume
> >
> > I use XML in the R packages I've been developing. For some of them, I
> > started before CRAN started being the maintainer, and before xml2
> > inception. The thing is that XML fulfills requirements, it works and
> > fulfills needs of depending packages that made the choice to use it. For
> > this, it deserves to be maintained in CRAN, without having to enter into
> > comparison exercices with other packages that , as of today, may be
> > better to rely on (with certainly very good reasons).
> >
> > Moving to xml2 (or whatever other package), which although I could agree
> > on the principle, can be costly for packages that use extensively XML.
> > Doing so would mean that we first get the assurance that all XML
> > features are covered elsewhere, and can be migrated smoothly.
> >
> > In any case, please acknowledge that this kind of migration may take
> > time and require resources that vary (or even are missing) depending on
> > the package projects. I doubt having CRAN setting a common deadline for
> > retirement is a good way to foster an efficient maintenance of R
> > packages depending on XML. It would be good to receive guidance how to
> > migrate, while ensuring backward compatibility on our package features.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Le 24/01/2024 à 15:59, Jeroen Ooms a écrit :
> >> On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 3:51 PM Uwe Ligges
> >> wrote:
> >>> Dear package developers,
> >>>
> >>> the CRAN team (and Professor Ripley in particular) has been the defacto
> >>> maintainer of CRAN package 'XML'.
> >>> Our hope was that maintainers of packages depending on XML will migrate
> >>> to other packages for reading XML structures. This has not happened and
> >>> we still see dozens of strong dependencies on XML.
> >> How is this hope communicated? Many R users assume that XML package is
> >> in great shape and the preferable choice because it is maintained by
> >> the CRAN team and r-core members.
> >>
> >> Perhaps one could follow the precedent from the rgdal retirement, and
> >> set a deadline.
> >>
> >> One way to communicate this effectively would be by introducing a
> >> formal deprecation field in the package description. This could then
> >> be displayed on the XML CRAN html page, and when loading the package
> >> interactively. Other packages that import such a deprecated package
> >> could be given a CMD check warning.
> >>
> >> __
> >> R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list
> >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
> >
> > __
> > R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
>
> __
> R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
__
R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list
Re: [R-pkg-devel] new maintainer for CRAN package XML
Re: guidance on how to migrate from XML to xml2, these notes from Daniel Nüst may be helpful: https://gist.github.com/nuest/3ed3b0057713eb4f4d75d11bb62f2d66. Best wishes, Heather On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, at 3:38 PM, Emmanuel Blondel wrote: > if XML is deprecated, then what would be the choice for a package > maintainer? Move to xml2 probably at some point I assume > > I use XML in the R packages I've been developing. For some of them, I > started before CRAN started being the maintainer, and before xml2 > inception. The thing is that XML fulfills requirements, it works and > fulfills needs of depending packages that made the choice to use it. For > this, it deserves to be maintained in CRAN, without having to enter into > comparison exercices with other packages that , as of today, may be > better to rely on (with certainly very good reasons). > > Moving to xml2 (or whatever other package), which although I could agree > on the principle, can be costly for packages that use extensively XML. > Doing so would mean that we first get the assurance that all XML > features are covered elsewhere, and can be migrated smoothly. > > In any case, please acknowledge that this kind of migration may take > time and require resources that vary (or even are missing) depending on > the package projects. I doubt having CRAN setting a common deadline for > retirement is a good way to foster an efficient maintenance of R > packages depending on XML. It would be good to receive guidance how to > migrate, while ensuring backward compatibility on our package features. > > Best > > Le 24/01/2024 à 15:59, Jeroen Ooms a écrit : >> On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 3:51 PM Uwe Ligges >> wrote: >>> Dear package developers, >>> >>> the CRAN team (and Professor Ripley in particular) has been the defacto >>> maintainer of CRAN package 'XML'. >>> Our hope was that maintainers of packages depending on XML will migrate >>> to other packages for reading XML structures. This has not happened and >>> we still see dozens of strong dependencies on XML. >> How is this hope communicated? Many R users assume that XML package is >> in great shape and the preferable choice because it is maintained by >> the CRAN team and r-core members. >> >> Perhaps one could follow the precedent from the rgdal retirement, and >> set a deadline. >> >> One way to communicate this effectively would be by introducing a >> formal deprecation field in the package description. This could then >> be displayed on the XML CRAN html page, and when loading the package >> interactively. Other packages that import such a deprecated package >> could be given a CMD check warning. >> >> __ >> R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel > > __ > R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
Re: [R-pkg-devel] new maintainer for CRAN package XML
On 24.01.2024 15:59, Jeroen Ooms wrote: On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 3:51 PM Uwe Ligges wrote: Dear package developers, the CRAN team (and Professor Ripley in particular) has been the defacto maintainer of CRAN package 'XML'. Our hope was that maintainers of packages depending on XML will migrate to other packages for reading XML structures. This has not happened and we still see dozens of strong dependencies on XML. How is this hope communicated? Many R users assume that XML package is in great shape and the preferable choice because it is maintained by the CRAN team and r-core members. Perhaps one could follow the precedent from the rgdal retirement, and set a deadline. One way to communicate this effectively would be by introducing a formal deprecation field in the package description. This could then be displayed on the XML CRAN html page, and when loading the package interactively. Other packages that import such a deprecated package could be given a CMD check warning. Sure, the new maintainer may do all these things. Best, Uwe Ligges __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
Re: [R-pkg-devel] new maintainer for CRAN package XML
On 24.01.2024 16:38, Emmanuel Blondel wrote: if XML is deprecated, then what would be the choice for a package maintainer? Move to xml2 probably at some point I assume I use XML in the R packages I've been developing. For some of them, I started before CRAN started being the maintainer, and before xml2 inception. The thing is that XML fulfills requirements, it works and fulfills needs of depending packages that made the choice to use it. For this, it deserves to be maintained in CRAN, without having to enter into comparison exercices with other packages that , as of today, may be better to rely on (with certainly very good reasons). Moving to xml2 (or whatever other package), which although I could agree on the principle, can be costly for packages that use extensively XML. Doing so would mean that we first get the assurance that all XML features are covered elsewhere, and can be migrated smoothly. In any case, please acknowledge that this kind of migration may take time and require resources that vary (or even are missing) depending on the package projects. I doubt having CRAN setting a common deadline for retirement is a good way to foster an efficient maintenance of R packages depending on XML. It would be good to receive guidance how to migrate, while ensuring backward compatibility on our package features. We learned that it is hard to fade out XML support, and CRAN took over maintainance as XML had too many reverse dependencies. CRAN certainly does not have the resources to be able to deprecate XML in the same way as Roger Bivand did for rgdal. So now we are looking for a new maintainer on a public list, feel free to raise your hand and take over. Then you could even consider to deprecate it and help other maintainers to migrate. I won't spend more time on any discussions. We are just looking for a volunteer. Best, Uwe Ligges Best Le 24/01/2024 à 15:59, Jeroen Ooms a écrit : On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 3:51 PM Uwe Ligges wrote: Dear package developers, the CRAN team (and Professor Ripley in particular) has been the defacto maintainer of CRAN package 'XML'. Our hope was that maintainers of packages depending on XML will migrate to other packages for reading XML structures. This has not happened and we still see dozens of strong dependencies on XML. How is this hope communicated? Many R users assume that XML package is in great shape and the preferable choice because it is maintained by the CRAN team and r-core members. Perhaps one could follow the precedent from the rgdal retirement, and set a deadline. One way to communicate this effectively would be by introducing a formal deprecation field in the package description. This could then be displayed on the XML CRAN html page, and when loading the package interactively. Other packages that import such a deprecated package could be given a CMD check warning. __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
Re: [R-pkg-devel] new maintainer for CRAN package XML
if XML is deprecated, then what would be the choice for a package maintainer? Move to xml2 probably at some point I assume I use XML in the R packages I've been developing. For some of them, I started before CRAN started being the maintainer, and before xml2 inception. The thing is that XML fulfills requirements, it works and fulfills needs of depending packages that made the choice to use it. For this, it deserves to be maintained in CRAN, without having to enter into comparison exercices with other packages that , as of today, may be better to rely on (with certainly very good reasons). Moving to xml2 (or whatever other package), which although I could agree on the principle, can be costly for packages that use extensively XML. Doing so would mean that we first get the assurance that all XML features are covered elsewhere, and can be migrated smoothly. In any case, please acknowledge that this kind of migration may take time and require resources that vary (or even are missing) depending on the package projects. I doubt having CRAN setting a common deadline for retirement is a good way to foster an efficient maintenance of R packages depending on XML. It would be good to receive guidance how to migrate, while ensuring backward compatibility on our package features. Best Le 24/01/2024 à 15:59, Jeroen Ooms a écrit : On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 3:51 PM Uwe Ligges wrote: Dear package developers, the CRAN team (and Professor Ripley in particular) has been the defacto maintainer of CRAN package 'XML'. Our hope was that maintainers of packages depending on XML will migrate to other packages for reading XML structures. This has not happened and we still see dozens of strong dependencies on XML. How is this hope communicated? Many R users assume that XML package is in great shape and the preferable choice because it is maintained by the CRAN team and r-core members. Perhaps one could follow the precedent from the rgdal retirement, and set a deadline. One way to communicate this effectively would be by introducing a formal deprecation field in the package description. This could then be displayed on the XML CRAN html page, and when loading the package interactively. Other packages that import such a deprecated package could be given a CMD check warning. __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
Re: [R-pkg-devel] new maintainer for CRAN package XML
On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 3:51 PM Uwe Ligges wrote: > > Dear package developers, > > the CRAN team (and Professor Ripley in particular) has been the defacto > maintainer of CRAN package 'XML'. > Our hope was that maintainers of packages depending on XML will migrate > to other packages for reading XML structures. This has not happened and > we still see dozens of strong dependencies on XML. How is this hope communicated? Many R users assume that XML package is in great shape and the preferable choice because it is maintained by the CRAN team and r-core members. Perhaps one could follow the precedent from the rgdal retirement, and set a deadline. One way to communicate this effectively would be by introducing a formal deprecation field in the package description. This could then be displayed on the XML CRAN html page, and when loading the package interactively. Other packages that import such a deprecated package could be given a CMD check warning. __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
Re: [R-pkg-devel] new maintainer for CRAN package XML
Dear Uwe and the CRAN team, Many thanks for maintaining the package for so long (>10 years!). I see the latest changes are in some internal C code related to updating the libxml2 library. In CRAN's experience, is this the highest time consuming task? I have some questions about how the maintenance transfer will go: Would someone from the CRAN team help/review the new maintainer for some time? Or would there be a change in the "cre" role and that's all the further involvement of the CRAN team with the package (besides the excellent checks on CRAN)? For anyone considering it, I analyzed a bit the situation of XML and RCurl: https://llrs.dev/post/2023/05/03/cran-maintained-packages/ In short, with ~300 direct dependencies, and many highly used, across CRAN and Bioconductor's packages. Kind regards, Lluís On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 at 15:51, Uwe Ligges wrote: > > Dear package developers, > > the CRAN team (and Professor Ripley in particular) has been the defacto > maintainer of CRAN package 'XML'. > Our hope was that maintainers of packages depending on XML will migrate > to other packages for reading XML structures. This has not happened and > we still see dozens of strong dependencies on XML. > > So we are looking for a person volunteering to take over 'XML'. > Please let us know if you are interested. > > For the CRAN team, > Uwe Ligges > __ > R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel __ R-package-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-package-devel
