[sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-29 Thread Matthias Koeppe
An update: https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/37300, which implemented what I proposed here, was positively reviewed (thanks, François!) and has been merged in the latest beta, 10.4.beta4. Many thanks to all who participated in this poll. It's an illustration (1) that participation in our

[sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-16 Thread Marc Culler
+1 on making python_build a standard package. - Marc On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at 10:44:36 PM UTC-5 Matthias Koeppe wrote: > We added python_build as an optional "pip" package (see > https://deploy-livedoc--sagemath.netlify.app/html/en/developer/packaging#package-types > for > the

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread kcrisman
It would be fun to continue the conversation with Dima, but clutter things up here too much, as David points out. Suffice to say that certainly What would really simplify things here is creation of a Windows based installer, not mere a document on dozens of things to be done to set it all up.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread David Roe
On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 5:50 PM Dima Pasechnik wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 10:01 PM François Bissey > wrote: > >> >> >> On 16/04/24 04:41, kcrisman wrote: >> > SageMath has several other long-term contributors who also package >> > software. We're all roughly on the same page

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread Dima Pasechnik
On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 10:01 PM François Bissey wrote: > > > On 16/04/24 04:41, kcrisman wrote: > > SageMath has several other long-term contributors who also package > > software. We're all roughly on the same page about what it would take > > to fix the sage installation for end

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread Dima Pasechnik
On 15 April 2024 22:13:59 BST, John H Palmieri wrote: >+1 to the inclusion of the package, in case anyone views the voting as >still open. > >François, thank you for letting us know about how the ongoing disputes are >affecting you. I feel your pain. John, do you think Francois is the only

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread John H Palmieri
+1 to the inclusion of the package, in case anyone views the voting as still open. François, thank you for letting us know about how the ongoing disputes are affecting you. I feel your pain. Regards, John On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 2:01:43 PM UTC-7 François Bissey wrote: > > > On

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread François Bissey
On 16/04/24 04:41, kcrisman wrote: SageMath has several other long-term contributors who also package software. We're all roughly on the same page about what it would take to fix the sage installation for end users. And some of these people (perhaps kiwifb?) have not been as

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread Dima Pasechnik
On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 5:41 PM kcrisman wrote: > > We (not just Sage, but you and I!) have been discussing this for > almost 15 years. > > > Haha, true! > > > SageMath has several other long-term contributors who also package > software. We're all roughly on the same page about what it would

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread Dima Pasechnik
On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 5:41 PM kcrisman wrote: > > We (not just Sage, but you and I!) have been discussing this for > almost 15 years. > > > Haha, true! > > > SageMath has several other long-term contributors who also package > software. We're all roughly on the same page about what it would

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread kcrisman
Pyenv is easier than sage distro, much easier. I meant *using* pyenv. I just don't want to be bothered when I really just use Sage. But this is quite orthogonal to the actual discussion, sorry for bringing up my 3.9 issues :-) Well, depending on a legacy (3.9) Python version isn't the

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread kcrisman
We (not just Sage, but you and I!) have been discussing this for almost 15 years. Haha, true! SageMath has several other long-term contributors who also package software. We're all roughly on the same page about what it would take to fix the sage installation for end users. And some

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread Dima Pasechnik
On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 12:21 PM kcrisman wrote: > > I understand that some macOS users are very comfortable with Sage the > distro playing the role of a missing macOS package manager, > > > The real question is about *users* in this case, not developers. I just > got messed up the other day

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread Marc Culler
On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 7:03:27 AM UTC-5 Michael Orlitzky wrote: The solution for users is pretty simple. You should be able to install a sage that works and will remain working with one command using homebrew, conda, guix, etc. The reason you can't is ... I would just mention that macOS

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread Michael Orlitzky
On 2024-04-15 04:20:59, kcrisman wrote: > > The real question is about *users* in this case, not developers. The solution for users is pretty simple. You should be able to install a sage that works and will remain working with one command using homebrew, conda, guix, etc. The reason you can't is

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-15 Thread kcrisman
I understand that some macOS users are very comfortable with Sage the distro playing the role of a missing macOS package manager, The real question is about *users* in this case, not developers. I just got messed up the other day brew updating something which killed my Python 3.9 I need in

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-14 Thread 'tobia...@gmx.de' via sage-devel
-1 The usage of "setup.py sdist" or "setup.py bdist_wheel" only happens in certain edge cases (e.g. the almost un-documented `--enable-wheels` option) and in these cases it is no problem to require developers to run `pip install build` beforehand. So these last remaining instances of calling

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-14 Thread Dima Pasechnik
On 14 April 2024 19:14:51 BST, Matthias Koeppe wrote: >When I completed the NumFOCUS application yesterday, I had to go through >the past years of sage-devel posts to answer the new question "Where do you >host conversations about project development and governance (e.g. mailing >lists,

[sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-14 Thread Matthias Koeppe
When I completed the NumFOCUS application yesterday, I had to go through the past years of sage-devel posts to answer the new question "Where do you host conversations about project development and governance (e.g. mailing lists, forums, etc.), and how many participants do you have?" (see

[sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-14 Thread Matthias Koeppe
Thanks all. I consider this approved. PR https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/37300 is ready for review. On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at 8:44:36 PM UTC-7 Matthias Koeppe wrote: > We added python_build as an optional "pip" package (see >

[sage-devel] Re: Proposal (redo): Make python_build (and its dependency pyproject_hooks) a standard package

2024-04-10 Thread Nathan Dunfield
+1: Using the PyPA standard build tools is a good move. On Tuesday, April 9, 2024 at 10:44:36 PM UTC-5 Matthias Koeppe wrote: > We added python_build as an optional "pip" package (see > https://deploy-livedoc--sagemath.netlify.app/html/en/developer/packaging#package-types > for > the