Hi,
or perhaps scan2 or altscan?
No ! you need to keep to semantic ! altscan or scan is not
selfexplanatory. Please prefer film or scan-film.
We should also state whether we should use _ or - in option name. I
guess that the standard is lowercase + hyphen + digit.
?tienne.
Hi,
but what is the frontend going to do with that, read the user's
setting, then turn the data back around and set the resolution and
duplex options? it seems that would be better done in the backend
itself.?
But the frontend should be aware that the device has changed some value,
at least
Hi,
From my point of view, everything is fine.
Regards,
?tienne.
Hi,
Maybe fax and copy too?
fax is good, but copy may be redundant with print, isn't it ?
The Canon LiDE 60 I have to hand has copy, scan, pdf, e-mail
buttons on the front
We should add pdf as well. e-mail should be renamed to mailto (or
vice versa).
Regards,
?tienne.
Hi,
Agree, HW_BUTTON is redundant with HARD_SELECT. Sorry for not notifying
it earlier.
?tienne.
Hi,
Then i will await your list of preferred button names :)
I suggest :
* auto for blank/context dependant button.
* scan for start button
* cancel
* paper-in but what for multiple source device ? (maybe
autoselecting source is enough ?)
* mailto
Hi,
So you mean an hardware selected option that can be read after the
scan ? Sounds good !
Regards,
?tienne.
Hi,
Thanks alan fo this post. I agree with everything on you list. Just add
something : would it be possible to just ensure that all usb scanner
backends support libusb:xxx:yyy as fallback device name ?
Regards,
?tienne.
Hi,
GNOME Scan do it.
?tienne.
Hi,
- more well known-options
I'd include more well-knonw sensor option like in fujitsu backend.
+1 for the entire wishlist.
?tienne.
Hi,
Now tell me, how do you transparently share scanners from one box to
another without a daemon?
I never said that. I said ? how to avoid running service if there is no
scanner plugged ? ?. I even implemented a daemon for polling sensor.
Please reread past mail rather than putting words in
Hi,
I also quite like the users don't want another daemon running
Personnaly, i don't care to have a cups for scanner. But people in
distributions, dev in other pieces of the stacks and end-users tell so.
Again, we should not impose a service but rather keep at least library
(and the daemon
Hi,
GUI clients are probably the largest group of _users_ of SANE. CLI
clients probably aquire more _images_. The needs of both groups must
be met.
Completely agree.
Best regards,
?tienne.
Hi,
This would provide a central point (saned) handling the hardware
entirely, it can chat with other things (HAL, anything over D-Bus, you
name it) and we totally avoid the current side effects we have today.
Do you mean having some cups for scanner ?
Actually, i wish not, because users
Hi,
Could you PLEASE stop thinking HAL all the time?
Could you please stop taking HAL as an offense all the time ?
By talking about HAL, i mean do not impose another system service and
let external project do it on top of SANE, be it either a DBus daemon, a
HAL addon, a regular daemon, etc.
Hi,
First of all, i have to apologize for being away from computer since few
days. This was easter days. Happy easter days :D
About proprietary backends. They have to support SANE, but SANE has not
to support those backends. Actually, as Allan said, nothing will be
break. And it's up to the
Hi,
i think the best you can do is to require that the backend accept
alternate names for the scanner if it is going to use something other
than the list you gave above.
Sorry, i didn't mean to impose one unique device name, but as you said,
simply require one common naming for supporting HAL
Hi,
Very interesting, thanks goes to SUSE for working for long time on
scanner integration with udev and HAL.
The HAL callout goal would be simply to compute the SANE device name put
it to HAL device property scanner.sane.device_name . This does not need
any SANE call as long as all backends
Hi,
1. a small callout, distributed with hal, which replicates the
sanei_{usb,scsi} device naming logic, and saves this device_name
string back into the hal data structure
2. a bigger callout, distributed with ??, which links to the dll
backend, and takes that device_name string, and does
Hi,
I read a bit the fujitsu backend source (sadly, i don't have such fuji
scanners). The sensor handling is exactly what i asked for :D !!
Each sensor is named button-id and id is not a number but
something like send, scan, etc. :) That is PER - FECT :D
I just suggest to expand this behaviour
Hi,
Could you explain which end-user issues do you like to solve?
Currently, if user put paper and push scan button, nothing happen.
While scanning, if user push cancel button, nothing happen (except
maybe some high level device like all-in-one). If forgot to plug or
switch on the scanner
Hi,
the windows software does boolean logic on this value, along with
the state of the other buttons and sensors, to provide many 'preset'
scan modes. it might be nice if your code could support that idea.
Agree, i'll implement this once i have user feedback. I may ping you
then for deeper
Hi,
unfortunately, no /dev/sgX name for the device in hal, but we can use
the host/chan/id/lun to get it.
HAL provide itself the /dev/sgX for SCSI in e.g. linux.device_file.
Regards,
?tienne.
Hi,
In january 2007, happened a very good discussion this list about SANE
and HAL wich led to shipping a basic fdi.
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/sane-devel/2007-January/018343.html.
Currently, sane-desc generate a very basic fdi which only badge device
as scanner and add a property
Hi,
?
We should encapsulate all HAL/DBus call inside hal backend.
the hal backend will load 'backend', and ask
it for a list of scanners it can find, and somehow pick the one that
goes with the 'udi'.
But how can hal backend filter the device list ? Can we avoid the actual
backend to search
Hi,
I answer both allan and abel in this mail.
we can also add a function like sane_get_device_information to the
Sane API that would return data like USB bus and devices numbers [?]
A HAL callout can then call sane_get_devices, call
sane_get_device_information for each Sane device and can
Hi,
extending sane_open just a bit to always
support 'libusb:xxx:yyy' or '/dev/sgX' is not an API change, so could
be implemented much sooner, and really only requires changes to the
backends that dont already use those names, which is few.
Right. Considering that HAL currently support usb,
Hi,
In order to have hotplug, quicker probe, more information about device
and better integration with the desktop, i want to use HAL to detect
scanner.
Quick HAL intro. HAL means hardware abstraction layer. It's a piece of
code running on Linux and *BSD providing high level features over device
Hi,
I worked on HAL-scanner, a project providing a HALd addon for monitoring
hardware selection option of SANE device just like scannerbuttond.
Features are :
* once instance per device (more robust)
* run only once a device is plugged (thanks HAL)
* provide a tiny DBus
Hi,
The fdi just need to tell this is a scanner, at least. We may add
extra info like device type, backend, etc. See Abel Deuring fdi
generator.
what does a UDI look like?
This is the one of a QScan scanner :
/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device_a53_1000_noserial_if0
* HAL device
Hi,
SANE allow hardware selected option. I call this sensor for short. It
can represent push button (like scan, cancel, mail, etc.), wheel
button (ask Allan for details), paper sensor, cover sensor, etc. Some
device have blank button.
Unlike software selected option, frontend *must* understand
Hi,
I forgot to talk about sensor type.
Push button must be boolean representing the pressed state of the
button.
Wheel button should be either Word, fixed or string. Well known string
value should be good like color-mode, grey-mode for hardware mode
selector.
Please comment.
Regards,
Hi,
Something bad is that i need Abel Deuring fdi generator in order to have
sane backend in the fdi.
How do you handle scanners supported by several backends?
Currently, hal addon use the first backend available. Remember it is
rather a proof of concept. The code should check
Hi,
you may have a chain of backend names. the udi is only useful if each
backend can use it to get enough info from hal to indentify the
scanner. i dont know what hal can provide in that case.
Here is an example of HAL device properties (stripped), you will notify
the scanner namespace added
Hi,
This is, or isn't, SANE 2 stuff. You're not going anywhere with that
and SANE 1.
I don't understand your sentence. I just mean renaming option in
backend, change some option type. That is mostly a matter of
implementation.
If you don't want to extend SANE 1 standard (like e.g. 1.2), just
Hi,
You're right, i though that SANE people were a bit aware of HAL since it
has already been discussed in this list years ago.
sell us on the IDEA first, then lets look at the implementation.
Let me explain that for SANE people. Please remember i'm primarily GNOME
Scan developer and thus have
Hi,
unless you add 'backend' as an argument to the function.
Reread carefully, i talked about adding backend argument along UDI. ;)
most backends could implement the function as returning a
concatenation of 'libusb:', the vendor and device ids.
I guess you talk about bus number and device
Hi,
KScannerButtons work like this. See
http://jice.free.fr/KScannerButtons/ .
However, this is completely incompatible with end user (think grand-ma)
who just want the scanner to cancel once she pushed that damn cancel
button, and not one more popup asking what to do (while the scanning is
Hi,
That's very nice to have button handling in your backend. Please provide
semantic button naming like paper-in, trigger, cancel or default
to auto or something similar. Also, please use boolean rather than 0/1
int option for button, this is as well more semantic. Button naming can
be done per
Hi,
They are allready of 'type' boolean:
VERY good ! I was talking about general buttons handling (plustek uses
integer).
I may put a more accurate 'title' and 'desc' field (it was on my TODO
list).
For the 'name' field, I'll stick to button%d like it is currently done in
Hi,
Along GNOME 2.22 si GNOME Scan 0.6 released. This version includes a
full rewrite. The goal of GNOME Scan is to make scanning as easy as
printing for both users and developers in the GNOME desktop.
You can learn more about this release at :
Does a german and an itilian understand the same thing behind
Tweaking ? ;)
?tienne.
Hi,
That's the shame with english. When will SANE switch to Esperanto ;)
Regards,
?tienne.
Hi,
Sorry for the multi post, i got sink under all those mail accounts. I'm
developing HAL scanner support and need the fdi file. This is why i ask
for it to be installed.
Distribution packages should be able to install without modifying the
source, (debian can, i guess Arch can't, don't know
Hi,
In CVS, sane-desc tool generate tools/hal/libsane.fdi, however, it is
not installed. Could you please install it ? Attached a patch installing
fdi file if --enable-hal-fdi is passed to configure.
Regards,
?tienne.
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Hi,
In CVS, sane-desc tool generate tools/hal/libsane.fdi, however, it is
not installed. Could you please install it ? Attached a patch installing
fdi file if --enable-hal-fdi is passed to configure.
Regards,
?tienne.
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Hi,
In CVS, sane-desc tool generate tools/hal/libsane.fdi, however, it is
not installed. Could you please install it ? Attached a patch installing
fdi file if --enable-hal-fdi is passed to configure.
Regards,
?tienne.
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Hi,
What we really need, err, what USERS really need, is a range of
frontends that match their needs as closely as possible:
- one frontend for the average joe user to handle basic scanning
needs (b/w text, documents, photos)
- one frontend for the advanced user (would be today's XSane)
Hi,
1. There is a need for more well-known options controlling certain
hardware (ie- adf)
2. There is a need to expose additional image types to specialized front ends.
3. The SANE2 draft is fairly large
4. The number of developers is limited
Let me add :
5. event (button, sensors)
Hi,
This would be very nice to have a release allowing major distros to ship
with updated SANE for next spring. Ubuntu ships CVS version of SANE
(2007-05-05). There is definitily a needs for a new release.
Regards,
?tienne
--
E Ultre?a !
Hi,
As a frontend developer, I'm very interested in such addition to test
backend !!
Regards,
?tienne.
--
E Ultre?a !
Hi,
I'm pretty much in the same case. I have two device without driver. I
sent one device to Gerard Jeager who nicely add support for this
device in plustek. I also own another device, but this time, i would
like to add sane support for this device (IRIS IBCR II), but i'm quite
lost in the
Hi,
As a frontend developer, i would really enjoy that SANE 2 get
developped, especially for its larger amount of well-known options.
However, i'm not agree with the curent handling of scanner button (as
we discussed earlier).
Regards,
?tienne
--
verso l'Alto !
Hi,
I agree with the proposal. Even if i wonder who do SANE 2, and if this
change does not actually open the SANE 2 development ? do you intend
to create at least a SANE 2 branch in CVS or save SANE 1 in a CVS
branch ? (i don't know if CVS handle branch like SVN)
Would be nice also to harmonize
Hi,
Currently, SANE propose three macro for scan mode values (Color, Gray
and Lineart) in order to keep backends consistent.
Writing a frontend, i would like to know wether the source is ADF or
not, this will allow frontend to scan until SANE_STATUS_NO_DOCS is
returned or just do one scan.
Hi,
xsane sane-pnm and
xsane sane-pnm:xsane-calibration.pnm and
sane-test equivilants seems not to work eighter?
use xsane pnm or xsane test or configure /etc/sane.d to load test
backend (uncomment test in dll.conf)
?Tienne.
--
Verso l'Alto !
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Hi,
But back to the problem I have/had with Etienne's suggstion for the
relations between page size and scan window coordinates: It does
not make much sense to allow to set a scan window in overscan mode:
The backend should calculate the scan window settings automatically
from the page size,
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Hi,
Download SANE CVS. See backend-writing.txt document. And start to hack.
?tienne.
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hi all,
I'm working on Gnome Scan and intend to be very active in this realm in
the next year.
This may hurt some people here.
I want to bring scan support to hal. I intended to talk with sane people
in january. I want in Gnome to use sane for access, not probe/detection.
That's bad to probe
Hello,
As part a Google Summer of Code, i wrote another SANE frontend. The
design of the frontend looks similar to libkscan. The purpose of the
project is to provide libraries to build scan UI.
So i wrote libgnomescan which is the frontend to SANE ; libgnomescanui
that provide widget to scan.
Hello,
In SANE 1 documentation. SANE_Parameters is documented in Operations
section. I suggest to document it in Data Types sections and to add an
entry in the Table of Contents for it.
?tienne.
--
Verso l'Alto !
It is the n that I am confused about. Specifically, what does n = 0 mean?
0 is the index of the option count option.
--
Verso l'Alto !
Hello,
Using SANE 1, application can retreive informations only about detected
devices by sane_get_devices(). That would be nice if SANE allow to
retreive such data for any device name.
I suggest :
* make sane_get_devices() returns a list of device name (e.g. a
NULL terminated
Hello,
scanimage -L reports:
device `plustek:libusb:003:003' is a Canon N1220U USB flatbed scanner
User should have
bersace@celebrad:~$ scanimage -L
device `plustek:libusb:002:002' is a Canon CanoScan N1220U flatbed
scanner
Hello,
SANE standard 1 does not specify how to handle scanner buttons,
but it is clear, that an option, which deals with a button has to deliver
a value (button pressed or not). Regarding that requirement, you have either
to use SANE_TYPE_BOOL or SANE_TYPE_INT - I choose BOOL.
Hello,
I own a flatbed scanner Canon CanoScan N1220U. The device name is
plustek:libusb:002:002. I find some bug in that backend or at least in
that device support.
* The product name is N1220U instead of CanoScan N1220U
* The option group buttons has 5 readonly options button of
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