Re: [whatwg] Video

2006-10-31 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: Flash player does not ship with browsers, at least not with every browser, but this doesn't prevent Flash from being widely used. Initially, the Flash Player plug-in was not bundled with popular web browsers and users had to visit Macromedia website to download

Re: [whatwg] Video

2006-10-31 Thread Charles Iliya Krempeaux
Hello,On 10/31/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alexey Feldgendler wrote: Flash player does not ship with browsers, at least not with every browser, but this doesn't prevent Flash from being widely used. Initially, the Flash Player plug-in was not bundled with popular web browsers and

Re: [whatwg] Video (Was: How not to fix HTML)

2006-10-31 Thread Bjoern Hoehrmann
* Ian Hickson wrote: Sure. FWIW, there's a lot of interest in browser vendors about introducing a video element or some such (or maybe making browsers natively support video in object, or both). And there I thought video had already been introduced in 1998. -- Björn Höhrmann · mailto:[EMAIL

Re: [whatwg] Custom elements and attributes

2006-10-31 Thread Henri Sivonen
On Oct 31, 2006, at 01:03, Øistein E. Andersen wrote: On 23 Oct 2006, at 12:43PM, Henri Sivonen wrote: Using custom schemas with the HTML parser is for experts only and produces very wrong results unless the schema is suitable. Indeed so, but then any tool can potentially be misused. Still,

[whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Michel Fortin
Le 30 oct. 2006 à 15:33, Ian Hickson a écrit : * note and reference for footnotes, endnotes, and sidenotes (not aside in “HTML5”) Yes, this is an area where document and converter authors currently need to come up with their own class-based hacks. Ideally a continuous media user agent

[whatwg] Dialogue and inline quotations

2006-10-31 Thread Michel Fortin
I think if HTML5 deprecate the use of dl for dialog, that it ought to provide a an alternative syntax for them. I know it has already been discussed, but I'd suggest this: dialog pciteMe:/cite qCan I say something?/q pciteHim:/cite qNo!/q /dialog In this design, dialog is

[whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Ian Hickson wrote: * note and reference for footnotes, endnotes, and sidenotes (not aside in “HTML5”) If anyone has any ideas on this, please post them to the list. (The CSS group is also looking at footnotes closely.) It would useful to look at previous work and discussion on this issue.

Re: [whatwg] Video

2006-10-31 Thread Henri Sivonen
On Oct 31, 2006, at 07:43, Lachlan Hunt wrote: Perhaps, to go along with the Audio() interface, we could have a Video() interface as well. Maybe it would be wise to introduce a MultiMedia() interface, which is then inherited by both the Audio() and Video() interfaces and extended by each

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread David Walbert
On Oct 31, 2006, at 9:30 AM, James Graham wrote:I think and distinction between footnotes, sidenotes and endnotes is basically presentational and whilst we should try to ensure that markup+CSS can create all three appearances we shouldn't treat them distinctly. Footnotes and endnotes are identical

Re: [whatwg] Element name expressiveness

2006-10-31 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:43:37 +0600, Michel Fortin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I'd favor term and time instead, or anything else that conveys a meaning. That's especially important since these element will have, most of the time, no noticeable effect on the visual representation of

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:30:44 +0600, James Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: pSome text span class=sidenotethis is a sidenote to put in the margin/span and some other text./p This seems to have a poor backward compatibility story - in a non-supporting UA the note ends up in the flow.

Re: [whatwg] The Module Tag

2006-10-31 Thread Douglas Crockford
It requires no changes to JavaScript and a small, incremental change to HTML. The proposal is here: http://json.org/module.html What you propose looks very similar to the Cross-document messaging already included into the current draft:

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:54:12 +0600, David Walbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody know how blind users prefer footnotes to be read for them? I would never want to require that a footnote be read to anyone, thereby interrupting the text -- it is in the nature of a footnote to be

Re: [whatwg] Joe Clark's Criticisms of the WHATWG and HTML 5

2006-10-31 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
... To get valid markup I must use a table tags if I want my layout to *function* that way. There is no way to fake it. It took three minutes to change the tags to table tags and the page functions perfectly now. This is for the benefit of the users. Some case of non sequitur, imho. I am in

Re: [whatwg] Joe Clark's Criticisms of the WHATWG and HTML 5

2006-10-31 Thread Charles Iliya Krempeaux
Hello,On 10/31/06, Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... To get valid markup I must use a table tags if I want my layout to *function* that way. There is no way to fake it. It took three minutes to change the tags to table tags and the page functions perfectly now. This is for the

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Håkon Wium Lie
Also sprach David Walbert: On Oct 31, 2006, at 9:30 AM, James Graham wrote: I think and distinction between footnotes, sidenotes and endnotes is basically presentational and whilst we should try to ensure that markup+CSS can create all three appearances we shouldn't treat them

Re: [whatwg] Lack of standard for digital signatures [was Joe Clark's Criticisms of the WHATWG and HTML 5]

2006-10-31 Thread Channy Yun
Anders, As you said, we may not get sufficient informations to standardize digital signature. But, in case of Korea, I'll sufficiently give them. The spec. and interface are almost standardized by governmental rules to all vendors. In Korea, the own cryptic algorithm has been encouraged, so

Re: [whatwg] Joe Clark's Criticisms of the WHATWG and HTML 5

2006-10-31 Thread Leons Petrazickis
On 10/31/06, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, On 10/31/06, Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... To get valid markup I must use a table tags if I want my layout to *function* that way. There is no way to fake it. It took three minutes to change the tags

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:53:04 +0600, Håkon Wium Lie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. W3C recently published a proposal on how to achieve footnote/endnote presentations using the same markup [1]. The proposal is quite simple. Given this markup: div class=note../div you would achieve

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread James Graham
Michel Fortin wrote: Le 30 oct. 2006 à 15:33, Ian Hickson a écrit : One thing to consider when looking at footnotes is would the title= attribute handle this use case as well as what I'm proposing?. If the answer is yes, or almost, then it's probably not a good idea to introduce the new

[whatwg] Element name expressiveness

2006-10-31 Thread Michel Fortin
That's a personal opinion, but I think it may have some value. I find the proposed x and t elements to lack expressiveness in their names. I understand that making them shorter is desirable, but it also has a drawback: they're harder to understand simply by looking at the source and their

Re: [whatwg] Joe Clark's Criticisms of the WHATWG and HTML 5

2006-10-31 Thread Peter Michaux
On 10/29/06, Henri Sivonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Ban tables for layout. As long as graphic designers want to use grid-based layouts, telling them to fake them with floats or, worse, positioning is jumping from the frying pan into the fire. (And telling them to use display: table;

Re: [whatwg] The Module Tag

2006-10-31 Thread Douglas Crockford
You need to define precisely what happens in the context of the receiver when it handles a message. Does script processing suspend for that time? Or does it run in parallel to handling the message? The sender is suspended until the receiver returns.

Re: [whatwg] Dialogue and inline quotations

2006-10-31 Thread Henri Sivonen
On Oct 31, 2006, at 15:34, Michel Fortin wrote: I think if HTML5 deprecate the use of dl for dialog, that it ought to provide a an alternative syntax for them. I still think dl makes sense for plays and the dialog doesn't need to be represented on the markup level when punctuation would

Re: [whatwg] The Module Tag

2006-10-31 Thread Ian Hickson
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Douglas Crockford wrote: You need to define precisely what happens in the context of the receiver when it handles a message. Does script processing suspend for that time? Or does it run in parallel to handling the message? The sender is suspended until the receiver

Re: [whatwg] How not to fix HTML

2006-10-31 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Matthew Raymond wrote: Here's a thought: | p | grouplabel for=genderGender:/grouplabel |labelinput type=radio name=gender value=mMale/label |labelinput type=radio name=gender value=fFemale/label | /p The element grouplabel gives the label for the group. That's similar to the

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Jonathan Worent
I came across an article by Jesper Tverskov titled The benefits of footnotes in webpages. (http://www.smackthemouse.com/footnotes) It may be of interest. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Sander Tekelenburg wrote: At 20:35 -0800 UTC, on 2006-10-31, Jonathan Worent wrote: I came across an article by Jesper Tverskov titled The benefits of footnotes in webpages. (http://www.smackthemouse.com/footnotes) It may be of interest. IMO the problems with the title attribute he lists are

Re: [whatwg] Browser Signature Standards Proposal

2006-10-31 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 00:24:08 +0600, Channy Yun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I said in other thread, I think digital signature must be standardized for secure and legal assurance of form data and I respect your issuing and great jobs. But, we can simply think this issue in range of this group.

Re: [whatwg] The Module Tag

2006-10-31 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 03:01:29 +0600, Douglas Crockford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You need to define precisely what happens in the context of the receiver when it handles a message. Does script processing suspend for that time? Or does it run in parallel to handling the message? The sender is

Re: [whatwg] Element name expressiveness

2006-10-31 Thread Michael(tm) Smith
Michel Fortin [EMAIL PROTECTED], 2006-10-31 09:43 -0500: I find the proposed x and t elements to lack expressiveness in their names. I understand that making them shorter is desirable, but it also has a drawback: they're harder to understand simply by looking at the source and their