Thanks Frank, So it is not the universal cure. Not surprising. I don’t see a show-stopper for pushing adoption.
Gene ---------------------------------------------- Eugene Chang IEEE Life Senior Member IEEE Communications Society & Signal Processing Society, Hawaii Chapter Chair IEEE Life Member Affinity Group Hawaii Chair IEEE Entrepreneurship, Mentor eugene.ch...@ieee.org m 781-799-0233 (in Honolulu) > On May 7, 2024, at 10:05 AM, Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.bor...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Here is a current view of it, IIRC: > > https://forum.openwrt.org/t/rfc9330-rfc9331-rfc9332-for-lower-latency/180519/12 > > <https://forum.openwrt.org/t/rfc9330-rfc9331-rfc9332-for-lower-latency/180519/12> > > All the best, > > Frank > > Frantisek (Frank) Borsik > > > > https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik> > Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 > > iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 > > Skype: casioa5302ca > > frantisek.bor...@gmail.com <mailto:frantisek.bor...@gmail.com> > > On Tue, May 7, 2024 at 10:03 PM Eugene Y Chang via Starlink > <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> > wrote: > I thought I saw a reference to an OpenWRT implementation with L4S. How well > does that work? > > > > Gene > ---------------------------------------------- > Eugene Chang > > > >> On May 7, 2024, at 9:46 AM, Dave Taht <dave.t...@gmail.com >> <mailto:dave.t...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Pete heist, jon morton, and rod grimes published a TON of research as >> to where l4s went wrong in these github repos: >> >> https://github.com/heistp <https://github.com/heistp> >> >> The last was: >> https://github.com/heistp/l4s-tests?tab=readme-ov-file#key-findings >> <https://github.com/heistp/l4s-tests?tab=readme-ov-file#key-findings> >> >> They were ignored. Me, I had taken one look at it 7+ years ago and >> said this cannot possibly work with the installed base of wifi >> properly and since 97E% of all home connections terminate in that it >> was a dead horse which they kept flogging. >> >> After the L4S RFCs were published they FINALLY took their brands of >> wishful thinking to actually exploring what happeed on real wifi >> networks, and... I have no idea where that stands today. Yes a custom >> wifi7 AP and presumably wifi8 will be able to deal with it, but >> everything from the backoff mechanisms in the e2e TCP Prague code and >> the proposed implementations on routers just plain does not work >> except in a testbed. Fq_codel outperforms it across the board with >> perhaps, some increased sensivity to RFC3168 seems needed only. L4S >> (all transports actually) benefits a lot from packet pacing, and... >> wait for it... fq) >> >> Slow start and convergence issues are problematic also with l4s. >> >> Being backward incompatible with fq_codel's deployed treatment of RFC3168 >> ECN. >> is a huge barrier too. >> >> The best use case I can think of for l4s is on a tightly controlled >> docsis network, pure wires and short RTTs only. The one implementation >> for 5G I have heard of was laughable in that they were only aiming for >> 200ms of induced latency on that. >> >> If on the other hand you look at fq (and also how well starlink is >> performing nowadays) and ccs like bbr, well... >> >> I do honestly think there is room for this sort of signalling >> somewhere on the internet, and do plan to add what I think will work >> to cake at some point in the future. I do wish SCE had won, as it was >> backwards compatible. >> >> >> On Tue, May 7, 2024 at 12:15 PM Jeremy Austin <jer...@aterlo.com >> <mailto:jer...@aterlo.com>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 7, 2024 at 11:11 AM Dave Taht via Starlink >>> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The RFC is very plausible but the methods break down in multiple ways, >>>> particularly with wifi. >>> >>> >>> Dave, can you elaborate more on the failures? Are these being researched or >>> addressed in the current trials, in your opinion? >>> >>> Jeremy >> >> >> >> -- >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVFWSyMp3xg&t=1098s >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVFWSyMp3xg&t=1098s> Waves Podcast >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>
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