Touché Jim. Touché... - Robert
-----Original Message----- From: Cakalic, James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 1:30 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: EJB = bad = MS.net Hmm. And this guy claims to be training other developers using Struts. If this is the kind of ranting that goes on in his book then its no longer a wonder to me why people have blasted it so mercilessly. Ever tried to do a distributed transaction across multiple database connections? Hard enough without substantial design even when they are all targeting the same physical database. Now try a distributed database. What if your enterprise data is coming from multiple sources? Or you want to involve messaging in the transaction? As for security, you can take it or leave it in the EJB model. But wouldn't be a good idea to design a single access point for such a resource to encapsulate the security policy? And wouldn't it be good for that policy to be declarative? And wouldn't you like the security credentials to be automatically propogated by the ORB? And wouldn't you like the roles to be retrieved from the same mechanism used to authenticate the user in the first place? And why would you write all that when it already exists? Granted, excessive use of EJB technology just because it is in your pocket is not a good design choice. But claiming it is always a bad choice regardless of circumstances is just as bad if not worse IMHO. Disputing the pros/cons of EJB and related technologies with someone who clearly does not appreciate the systemic issues the technologies are attempting to address is sorta like debating the benefits of MVC with one of those died-in-the-wool, you'll-never-change-my-mind, always-choose-the-most-expedient-route Model 1 programmers we've all run up against. They're so indoctrinated with their own BS that they just can't see anything else. Jim Cakalic > -----Original Message----- > From: Struts Newsgroup [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:25 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: EJB = bad = MS.net > > > Subject: Re: EJB = bad = MS.net > From: Vic Cekvenich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > === > > Transaction: DBs have it; or you can have a Java Bean, that has 2 > JavaBeans in it, and all have a "commit()" method. You use EJB for a > commit()? > Security? : > -Menu based based on a role (using Struts-menu), some items > are disabled > based on your role. > -JAAS JDBC Realms (I also get groupID) > -Based groupID some rows retrieved / selected are editable, > some RO and > some invisible on your selects. It's called row based security. > - Status based, based on a status of a row, some fileds become RO. > > EJBs give you 0 useful security. > > EJBs are also very slow to develop, and they distract developers to > develop technology and not solve a business problems. They > are also .... > slow to execute, thus they are only suitable for small > applications with > low volume (and for organizations where a profit margin is > not important > or on going cost of operations is not important). > THere are some with EJB and and some resumes with EJBs are by > people who > have written a laboratory "hello world" ejb and never > actually used them > in production deployed where there is volume. > > "Custom" RowSet can code circles around a large team of "EJB > developers". > OK, its a Flame: I have a bridge for sale by a smooth talking > sales guy, > aka The emperor is not wearing any clothes. > > Vic > > Carl Sziebert wrote: > > > Just a question for those of you who knock EJBs... How is > it that you > > plan to provide transaction management and security within your > > applications? Going straight to the database won't provide that for > > you. This whole debate makes me wonder how many people really > > understand Java and quality application design. I suggest > that anyone > > with questions get themselves a copy of Pro JSP Site Design > by Wrox. It > > might help. > > > > This debate has the potential to go on for a while... > Sorry, but I just > > had to add my 2 cents. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Vic Cekvenich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:42 AM > > To: Struts Users Mailing List > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: EJB = bad = MS.net > > > > Home page of Jakarta has this > > http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0130.2 > > on this: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/general%40jakarta.apache.org/msg03376.html > > I agree. Doing EJBs is bad on many levels and creates more problems. > Avoid EJB if you want to stay in Java. > > Alternative is to just use Struts + TomCat + RowSet (or DAO if you are > doing something simple or small) and done. This is the sweet spot. MVC > is all you need. > > Alternative, do EJBs and your organization WILL switch to MS .NET on the > > next project, leave J2EE, and you have to learn VB.net. > > EJBs are for newbies. (If you need middleware (very rare) use SOAP) > > lol, > Vic > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
