Re: (313) EZMLM problem

[Ken]

I'm no techy. But we've been using g groups privately for years now. It's watertight. Of course the need to migrate would be offensive for a lot of subscribers, though, I guess.   Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: kent williams Sent: Friday, 25 April 2014 15:50 To: Matthew Kane Cc: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) EZMLM problem Yeah we'll see what Brian decides. Switching over all the hyperreal.org lists will be kind of a chore. I'd just switch to a google group if I didn't think that would cause other problems. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Matthew Kane <m...@hydrogenproject.com> wrote: Mailman 2.1.16 has the Threadable change. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM, kent williams <chaircrus...@gmail.com> wrote: > Apparently there is a problem with something called DMARC that big e-mail > providers are implementing.  I've quoted the e-mail from Brian Behlendorf > (who is the man behind hyperreal.org) on the subject. > > The big problem is people with yahoo.com e-mail addresses. The way EZMLM > works is that it takes your e-mail and resends it to all the list members. > Any mail server implementing DMARC rejects e-mails where the FROM: address > is x...@yahoo.com, but it doesn't come from a yahoo mail server. > > This has resulted in people getting bounce notices from hyperreal. It has > happened to me, and I don't even have a yahoo.com e-mail address. > > Bottom line is the hyperreal team is working on a solution, but this will > likely screw up 313 emails for the near term. > > If you're an e-mail list wizard and can suggest a linux based mailing list > server that can circumvent this stupidity, please let me and > (br...@hyperreal.org) know. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > If you list is still active and hasn't been swept away by folks moving to > Facebook or whatever, you might have heard complaints from yahoo.comusers, > or possibly even folks who have started to see strange bounces where > yahoo.com senders are involved.  This is due to a current hullabaloo about > an anti-spam tech called DMARC and Yahoo's recent and strict implementation > of it. > > http://thehackernews.com/2014/04/yahoos-new-dmarc-policy-destroys-every.html > > DMARC is a system designed to allow domain owners to specify policies and > rules regarding how to deal with email from senders using that domain. For > example, for an email with a From header like: > > From: Brian <brianbehlend...@yahoo.com> > > Yahoo published a policy that says unless that email came from Yahoo's > servers, it should be rejected.  This is a great anti-spam technique given > that lots of spammers use yahoo.com addresses fraudulently (I guess?). But > what it means for senders to mailing lists like those we host at Hyperreal, > when that mail goes through Hyp and comes back to Yahoo's servers, it > bounces.  Not only that, but that Yahoo sender's mail bounces at Gmail and > other mail service providers who implement DMARC.  Those bounces can cause > chaos, of course.  Ezmlm/qmail will keep track of those bounces and at least > let subscribers know they're missing messages and why, and shouldn't unsub > those users automatically, but it still causes chaos. > > More details on technically why this is wrong: > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html > > Yahoo appears to not get why this is a big deal: > > http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/82426971544/an-update-on-our-dmarc-policy-to-protect-our-users > > There is no good fix here.  Changing the From: header to say something like > > From: Brian Behlendorf via <sfra...@hyperreal.org> > > seems wacky, but it's what Threadable did, specifically for DMARC-checking > recipients and DMARC-policy-publishing sender domains: > > http://blog.threadable.com/how-threadable-solved-the-dmarc-problem > > Sadly, though, no open source mailing list manager has implemented this > well.  Mailman seems to have implemented this partially, but no one's even > talking about this for ezmlm and I doubt it'll happen.  I've not decided > whether to move the Hyperreal mailing lists to Mailman or something else, > but clearly we need to move off of ezmlm anyways.  I was hoping to be able > to choose between a couple of them, but now that choice seems much more > narrow (and not necessarily the best - Sympa was looking promising too). > > Anyways - I am sad that this is how things have played out, that I can't > provide a quick resolution to this.  For now all I can suggest is asking > youryahoo.com users to switch to another domain if they want to participate. > But that sucks as an answer.  If anyone has better ideas (or > programming/migration talent to contribute) let me know. -- matt kane twitter: the_real_mkb / nynexrepublic http://hydrogenproject.com