why are you whining to the list? oh poor me, I am black or poor me Im a woman or poor me, Im white (im sure the order in which I listed those will have some of you all excited. go ahead and hit reply to all and let me have it.)
how about getting away from the computer and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT. whining about it does no good whatsoever ----- Original Message ----- From: "laura gavoor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business - get with it > Well...his points ARE valid ones....but to a much smaller degree than most > European promoters would have you believe. > > However, many US artists have reputations or streaks in their careers for > not showing, from Joey Beltram to Armand Van Helden, to Felix da Housecat, > to Paul Johnson, to the list goes on. Lots of djs from lost of cities have > burned out temporarily and burned some bridges along their paths... Do they > get the same backlash??? Perhaps so, maybe not. > > Detroit or Chicago artists are NOT that unique from that standpoint > Frederic, which i'm sure after some consideration you might grudgingly > agree. Maybe not. > > Moreover, lots of European promoters have also taken gross advantage of the > talents afforded by black American djs as well, complaining about fees, when > on the very same bill another white dj - of equal or less credibility - will > have been paid double what they (often complaining...) so generously paid > one of Detroit's djs AT A PEAK OF THEIR CAREERS/NOTORIETY...and when they > were ALWAYS showing up. > > Ideally Frederic, people like the Sonar festival (example ONLY ...), have > built their castles SOLIDLY on the back of the very same Detroit > djs/artists/businesses they perhaps choose to try and discredit ...ALL with > VERY LITTLE mishap. > > The people (booking agents, labels, etc) that they work with today have it > much, much easier then when these companies were also on their way up in > this industry. I believe that most give little to NO CREDIT for taking > advantage of artists (also eager for their fame/fortune)they ultimately > BUILT their credibility, wealth and reputations upon. Plus...most of these > promoters came waaay later than the artists or even small business people > like myself me, but would have you believe otherwise with their criticisms > and arrogance. > > And they STILL list the same Detroit artists in whatever advert or promo > they do to continue to VALIDATE their history or credibility. > > Regarding the inference that I just showed up and started answering a > telephone...that is simply incorrect. Women in this industry get > player-hated with FAR more venom than the men, so let's look at this > realistically ... The fact that I STILL have to defend my stature in this > industry speaks for itself...but I am used to it. > > The age-old adage of women working twice as hard for less than half of the > credibility in the business world at large...is even worse in this arena. > > When I started working at a Detroit label, the phone hardly EVER rang...not > for press/media concerns NOR booking inquiries. Said label was in > considerable debt, headed by an artist who wasn't the 'Cat's meoww ' at that > time and STILL hasn't made any records which would've made my task/job SOOOO > much easier. > > The only somewhat easy markets to make a little money with at that time were > Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands. DJs that I worked with were getting > about $1,000-1,200.00 usd -- MAX......my supa-small commissions--when/if i > got them-- were NOT COMMENSURATE WITH the amount of work that I was doing > ALL ALONE in this city. Most of these cats did not have publicists, PR > firms, management or even label managers...ANY staff on a payroll (save UR) > until well AFTER I was in this for over a year+. > > Consequently, once things started firing up and people started realizing > that they might get a quicker response than simply faxing Carl Craig's > machine in his apartment (the fax machine WAS Planet E...once upon a time). > They CHOSE to call me to facilitate their business and the flow of business > in this city fired up considerably. No brag...just fact and a lot of HARD > WORK. Most often than not, I did the work or passed along opportunities > directly to the artist getting NO compensation along the way. > > Jeff was living (mostly) in Berlin at the time and circumvented a lot of > international wear and tear by being in the midst or close to the action. > Derrick did the same having taken an apartment in Amsterdam. There were > hardly any artists from Detroit that were travelling to London at all until > Ministry/Jim Masters/Lynn Cosgrave really afforded opportunity for us to do > so for a short period. The media heated up their interest as they were > starting to be afforded a closer look and experience the artists whose > product was JUST beginning to reach their ears/get reviewed as the almighty > ' T ' word. > > Moreover, techno artists to a large degree are very much a boys club here in > this city which precludes that they would ever show respect, or acknowledge > anything a woman in their midst accomplished--CLAIMING said accomplishments > for their own. Fact is, you weren't here and your perspective is from > across the ocean. The promoters that may be owed their just due are an > exceedingly small, less than 1%, of this discussion. > > Apres the first mainsteam (Virgin Records subsidized) touring of Inner > City... I booked and marketed the very FIRST Detroit indie artists/music in > the following countries with NO HELP from anyone: China, Australia, Japan, > Spain, Chile, Brazil, Argentina, New Zealand, The Phillipines, Taiwan, > Thailand, Singapore, South Africa, Finland, Norway, Turkey, etc.....AS WELL > AS the U.S. > > The first times ANYWHERE took 20 times the amount of any work that a gerat > many have benefitted from after my toils. It was ALWAYS an educational as > well as business oriented mission......... Moreover, I facilitated record > sales simultaneous to or shortly after any of these first penetrations into > these SAME markets--that each and every artist in THIS CITY have benefitted > from ....FOR FREE..... > > I could go on..but why? > > Yet valid/invalid...I really don't need to defend myself OR these artists > for the debate at hand which is concentrating on the U.S. and we have all > paid serious dues, some of which YOU may have even benefitted from......and > therefore are deserving of your professional courtesy as it HAS been solidly > EARNED. > > Bookings of Detroit artists to Europe and elsewhere globally has its ups and > downs just like anything else.. > > I suppose I must be doing at least SOMETHING right...as longevity speaks for > itself in spite of the hating going on in this thread. > > P.S. Regarding the hype on the DEMF vs. Love Parade, Frederic IS spot on > correct. > > > >From: "xx xx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business - get with it > >Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:18:41 +0000 > > > > > >If I was a professionnal, I'd sent this kind of thing in private... > >There is absolutly no added value here! > > > >And hopefully someone has made his big money with a Detroit artist. > >How quickly people forget. > > > >ehyophstaOut > > > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org > >>Subject: Re: [313] Regarding Business - get with it > >>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:02:45 EST > >> > >>REGARDING BUSINESS : > >> > >>To Laura, > >> > >> > >>10 years ago the world promoter > >>radio, press will contacting you > >>for detroit artist > >> > >>10 years ago all european > >>majors or big independant > >>label will contact you also > >>for your detroit artist > >> > >>now, 95 % of european promoter > >>does not want to book detroit > >>dj often scare of no show, not > >>collecting the money back > >>for the 50 % deposit or flight. > >> > >>Label company does not > >>want to deal anymore too much > >>with Detroit artist as they do not > >>deliver on time what they did promis... > >> > >> > >>Demf is now controlling by > >>Carol Marvin who think that is > >>the biggest festival in the world !!! > >>WHAT ABOUT THE LOVE PARADE > >>1.5 MILLION PEOPLE IN ONE AFTERNOON > >>THIS IS THE BIGGEST EVENT IN THE WORLD > >> > >> > >>Business is business, I'm > >>in the business since more than 10 years > >>and if you don't handle the business correctly > >>people will not follow any more, > >>and the reputation going down, down, > >>down..... > >> > >> > >>regards black and white, i think > >>this is more into the USA... > >>We don't have to deal too much with this > >>problem in europ, but for sure in the > >>usa it is a real problem and i'm agree > >>with Laura for this... > >> > >>Detroit artist are really respect > >>in europ may be more than the usa.... > >>and lots of people here in europ will > >>still keep to listen detroit stuff all the > >>time. > >> > >>Regards, > >> > >>Fdjaaleb. > >> > >> > >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
