Kirk, > Agreed again. I really do wish 4D did a better job of presenting new technology.
Not wanting to sound like a 4D shill but I think the new blog ( https://blog.4d.com) is fantastic for demonstrating new features. Regards, Wayne [image: --] Wayne Stewart [image: http://]about.me/waynestewart <http://about.me/waynestewart> On 1 December 2017 at 05:05, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > Hey Jody, > Great post. > > On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech < > 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > > You are right how we stick to our old habits. We do though because they > > have proven to work and sticking with them saves a lot of time. > > > True but there's retro code that while working and stable is also > un-necessary any more or simply overly complicated because it's relying on > procedures written prior to certain capabilities 4D even had. I wonder how > many folks are still using the old drag and drop commands for instance. > > > > What we have done is to rewrite our shell every so often. The goal is to > > make use of all of the new features of 4D that we can, and to try new > ways > > of doing things. We did this over the last year with v16. We really > pushed > > out a lot of the way we used to code and did it the new way we decided > on. > > One thing we did find is that in uncompiled with Team Developer it was > > slow. We got concerned. I did notice it was also slower on Stand Alone > > developer but not as bad. We do not use global variables on forms (or in > > our code), use our own dot.notation in C_Objects extensively, and use > > pointers even more than before (and with local variables). > > > > We finally decided we had better compile it to see what the end user > speed > > was going to be like. We breathed a big sigh of relief as the code > executed > > quickly. I suspect that a lot of the new way of coding gets ‘hard coded’ > by > > the compiler so that it does not have to take the time to create the item > > in memory - thus the speed increase. > > > > Back to the topic of the thread - rewriting our shell though expensive > for > > us, it helps move our mind set, test out new theories, and keep our code > up > > to date with the 4D Technology. > > I agree. I've re-written the main db our company uses three times now in > the last 14 years. Started in 6.8, then jumped to 2004 and then to v13. The > one from '04 to v13 was hard. In my case mainly because I took that > opportunity to correct some structural issues that had come up as the scope > of the project increased. It just had to be done. And the benefits are > worth it. > > The size of the code base actually shrank. When you implement the newer > functions 4D offers it frequently makes for less code to accomplish the > same things. It also allowed me to position the project to interact more > with other services. The user experience improves and I'm better able to > keep it looking a little more modern than a lot of 4D looks. That's more > important than mere aesthetics. The more I can make my interfaces resemble > the sort of interfaces they see in their browsers the easier it is for them > to use my program. > > > > Testing is critical though. We got bit very badly with SQL when it first > > arrived. Once France got involved they identified the cause quickly, and > > fixed it. Learned a good lesson there - yet again. > > > Agreed again. I really do wish 4D did a better job of presenting new > technology. And how they intend us to use it as a place to start. Or > perhaps more to the point how to transition to it. And why. Again I'll > point back to the drag and drop stuff. I recall posting something about how > to implement the new form events and the pasteboard but I was looking at it > from the context of working with the old commands and trying to understand > how adding the new capabilities was a benefit. > Which was a complete waste of time. Finally someone, probably Miyako or > Josh, flatly told me "just walk away from the old way of doing it - you > don't need it anymore." Duh! Light bulb moment. I'm paraphrasing and it was > probably nicer but that's what I needed to hear to ditch my old way of > looking at it and start fresh. > > Personally I think 4D walks a tight line on that sort of stuff - not > wanting to alienate old projects or make it seem like they _have_ to be > re-written. And then, as you say, we've all be bitten by jumping onto > something new only to stumble on to some bug. Well, you know what they say, > if it was easy to write good code every a**hole in the world would be doing > it. > > -- > Kirk Brooks > San Francisco, CA > ======================= > > *The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do > nothing.* > > *- Edmund Burke* > ********************************************************************** > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com > ********************************************************************** > ********************************************************************** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) FAQ: http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **********************************************************************
