Jack Johnson wrote:
On 5/24/05, Dan Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Because the data isn't accumulated over time, the damage
done by the bad data remains done. The correction is never applied.
So, this begs the question, do people using IRC understand this? If
so, then the newbie swears, tries again with a new crowd, or tries
9fans and waits. If not, then they assume the software is broken or
that it will not do what it asks and they give up.
No, they do not. When I first started in there, I was given absolute
hell and did not understand what everyone's problem was. I've come to
appreciate that some of that attitude is qualified by being a Plan 9
user/developer/enthusiast as I have taken some of the mental stances myself.
But I still notice that far too many people (potential developers
included!) have been scared away by the overzealous ideals and twisted
advocacy of some individuals.
This has caused me to `indefinitely' leave the channel. At least until I
noticed it getting better. During this time, I started #Plan-9, which
was pretty successful at getting people who really wanted to talk about
Plan 9 to do so in a kind fashion. It still exists, though the
conversation has moved en masse back to #Plan9.
Surprisingly, it did. I still notice some of the behaviors, but they are
in general getting better. Unfortunately, I have not been around for the
last set of quotes that sparked this thread. Normally, I check uriel on
his statements.
If I were really concerned about the quality of information on IRC, I
would donate an hour a week to straightening out the locals or just
roll an infobot that references the wiki and the mailing list archives
and let the locals qualify the result with their own $0.02 (though
possibly not USD).
There are a lot of great minds in #Plan9. Infrequently, I see Ron,
Andrey and Russ. Other than that, there's usually Vester, Boyd, Steve
Simon, Tim Newsham, Eric van Hensbergen and myself. I'm probably leaving
lots of people out; this is simply to give people an idea.
In general, the discussion is good when I'm discussing, simply because
interesting development / usage issues are being discussed. I tend to
leave when it gets too hairy. Which is why it's oddly good discussion
when I'm there ;). (Don't mean to glorify myself one bit).
Otherwise, I would assume the visitors were looking for easy
information and that they realize they might not walk away with
answers.
-Jack
This is always something to watch out for on IRC, and unfortunately many
IRC newbies do not understand this.
I'd say it's generally a good place. But you have to know who to watch
for. Generally that's straightforward, but it can get messy sometimes.
In any case, I think this thread is somewhat moot. IRC is known for its
crap; I think it just hits us hard because it's such a niche OS (at the
moment, at least). The best thing to do (in my experience) is say `BS,
<user>' and drop it. /ignore also works wonders for most clients.
I might petition Freenode to make a ##Plan9 channel per its ridiculous
`this is not an official project channel' guidelines, but it might help
users who are new to Freenode (who have read the page / MOTD) to
understand that it's not an official channel.
Kind regards,
Devon H. O'Dell
