This is meant principally as a point of discussion among the Christians here. Others are free of course to chime in (Hi, e_!) but the topic here is a point of Christian theology, so I would ask all to stay within the bounds of respect for that, and at least to acknowledge as the tentative premise of this whole discussion, the reality of the Person of Jesus Christ and the truth of His message. Yes, e_, we know you "don't believe that," but if you are going to chime in on this thread, at least consider it from the perspective that it is possibly true; otherwise your comments will have little relevance to the topic at hand.
Brock wrote in another thread that, "there isn't an instant during which any persons (except Christ) are not steeped fully in sin." Yet, Saint John the Evangelist writes of Saint John the Baptist that, John 1:29 The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him; and he says: Behold the Lamb of God. Behold him who takes away the sin of the world. There seems to be a discrepancy here. If Jesus takes away sin, then how are we (Christians) still "steeped fully in sin?" Whose sin does He take away? His own? He never had any in the first place; being God, it is impossible for Him to sin. So what is the point of this passage in Scripture, or alternatively, where is the Scriptural warrant for the doctrine of Total Depravity? It is not in Romans 3:23. That passage says, "all have sinned," past tense, not, "all continue to sin." Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and do need the glory of God. 24 Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God has proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the showing of his justice, for the remission of former sins, They are called "former sins," not "current sins." Saint John writes in his letters, 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he also is in the light, we have fellowship one with another: And the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all iniquity. Note that the blood of Jesus, according to Scripture, does not merely cover up our sins, but actually "cleanses us from all sin." Lest we despair, he also writes, 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the just. So there is still forgiveness, if we are unfortunate enough to commit *more* sins after our former sins have been washed away. If we unfortunately fall into sin again after Baptism, becoming once again filthy, we can again be washed clean, "If we confess our sins." But lest we presume, he also writes, 1 John 3:4 Whosoever commits sin commits also iniquity. And sin is iniquity. 5 And you know that he appeared to take away our sins: and in him there is no sin. 6 Whosoever abides in him sins not: and whosoever sins has not seen him nor known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you. He that does justice is just, even as he is just. 8 He that commits sin is of the devil: for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God appeared, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God commits not sin: for his seed abides in him. And he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Saint John here is teaching exactly the opposite of "there isn't an instant during which any persons (except Christ) are not steeped fully in sin." So since Saint John was writing Scripture, and since the doctrine of Total Depravity cannot be found in Scripture, it appears to be an invention of the Protestants. The true Teaching is that the Lamb of God came to take away sin, and does take away our sins. That is why He instituted the Sacraments of the Dead, to wit, Baptism and Penance, or Reconciliation, popularly called Confession.
