Going through the interesting post! Because of some illegitimate practices by a few blind people, now a days the whole blind community is being criticized. It has become an excuse even for the authorities for not giving proper facilities when it comes to examination. Are there no cheaters in the sighted community? I am sighted, working in a college and seeing a few students being detained almost every examination, in spite of our college being private one and very strict. I am sure the scene must be worse in many other colleges. If someone somewhere cheats, does the hammer comes on the whole of sighted community? Then why so with the blind community? Why should the whole community be judged based on the actions of a few? They are denied their basic rights and shown the door as if the whole community have done some crime. The authorities simply want to shake the responsibilities off their shoulders by sighting a few such examples as excuses.
Kanchan On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 7:51 PM <shanka...@tech-accessibility.in> wrote: > Well said! > Don’t know about other states, but, in Karnataka, no special schools > introduced the maths and science in there high school level, except ramana > maha rushi school. also, the education system has gone completely down > compared to the previous years. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AccessIndia <accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in> On Behalf Of > gunjan kumari > Sent: 27 June 2019 16:11 > To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning > the disabled. <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> > Subject: Re: [AI] important read- a very insightful tweet thread shared by > a scribe who wrote the SBI exam for a visually impaired person. > > The discussion is so compelling that I can’t resist commenting. No defence > for those who pay thousands to get through the competitive exams! After > all, it is they who prove the poet Yeats’ statement: > “The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate > intensity”. > But the fault lies within our education system too. There is a lot of > lacunae in elementary and primary education system meant to support the > students with visual impairment. In this scenario, it becomes solely the > responsibility of an individual with blindness to cope with her/his > problems if they wish to stand at par with sighted students. > And, of course, everyone is not well-equipped emotionally, morally, > ethically and sometime financially to act in this direction. So, one of the > ways to cope with this situation can be to follow the exam patterns > suggested by Rohit and other members for people with blindness for such > exams till we reform our education system at large. > And, I must point out, Payal Ma’am, you always raise such > thought-provoking and worth-reflecting issues that no sensitive person can > remain untouched by them! > > Thanks and regards > > Gunjan > On 6/26/19, Avichal Bhatnagar <coolavic...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Actually, the problem lies on both sides of the spectrum. While it is > > true that the pattern of the paper doesn't reflect the characteristics > > of banking for questioning, yet the fact of paid scribes destroying > > the legitimacy of the whole process can't be denied altogether. > > If we justify the use of scribes for any reason under the sun, then it > > can open up a pandora box. > > Then, should the students in small towns who do not get facilities > > like the metropolitans be allowed cheating in board exams? > > > > > > On 6/25/19, Austin Pinto <austinpinto.xavi...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> yes. > >> like for example what is the use of direction and boats and streems > >> in banking i dont know. such questions are asked in exams. > >> > >> On 6/25/19, Rohit Trivedi <rohi...@msn.com> wrote: > >>> I suggest that all V I Bankers shoul deliberate upon the tasks they > >>> can take up after they the job. The candidates must be tested on > >>> skill sets which they require in bank. > >>> > >>> I feel they must be tested for communication skills, both verbal and > >>> writing skills , computer, and adequate knowledge of banking > >>> procedures and finance. > >>> > >>> When the vacancies are year marked for them why should be require > >>> appear in the exam with the general lot. This requires in-depth > >>> thinking, research and of course lot of advocacy . Because those who > >>> are competent and are not able to get the writer who can help them > >>> in the exam get left out. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > >>> Windows > >>> 10 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: AccessIndia <accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in> on behalf > of > >>> Prerna Sobti <prerna.so...@gmail.com> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2019 9:22:04 PM > >>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues > >>> concerning > >>> the disabled. > >>> Subject: Re: [AI] important read- a very insightful tweet thread shared > >>> by > >>> a > >>> scribe who wrote the SBI exam for a visually impaired person. > >>> > >>> Hi > >>> > >>> Very interesting chain of post! To the reality might be that people are > >>> getting paid scribers but that is because of the increase in the level > of > >>> competition and lack of facilities else nobody wants to challenge their > >>> ethics > >>> I know few of the bankers who face daily challenge from the co-workers > >>> saying that because they are visually impaired they get everything > >>> easily! > >>> They put? On the competency of visually impaired candidates which is > very > >>> sad as pointed out in this email visually impaired people are far > better > >>> competent because they do logical reasoning X Sectra without the help > of > >>> visual assistance or use of rough sheets! We cannot judge everybody in > >>> the > >>> same category thank you very much for bringing this to everybody’s > notice > >>> Payal > >>> > >>> Prerna Sobti > >>> > >>>> On 25-Jun-2019, at 4:32 PM, Asudani, Rajesh <rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in > > > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> All other things are usual routine. > >>>> Except maybe, the issue of maths and reasoning being solved by VI. > >>>> Maybe, it is really unrealistic to expect that much of mental > >>>> processing. > >>>> But we have done it ourselves... > >>>> > >>>> Maybe, the level was easier about two decades ago... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> But what do you do when critical majority are bringing in scribes in > a > >>>> package by paying almost half a lack rupees. > >>>> Excuse me for revealing current market rates!! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On > >>>> Behalf Of Payal Kapoor > >>>> Sent: 25 June 2019 14:56 > >>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues > >>>> concerning > >>>> the disabled. > >>>> Subject: Re: [AI] important read- a very insightful tweet thread > shared > >>>> by > >>>> a scribe who wrote the SBI exam for a visually impaired person. > >>>> > >>>> thanks for the transcribe Austin. > >>>> > >>>>> On 6/25/19, Austin Pinto <austinpinto.xavi...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> these are all the messages by Harsh > >>>>> @harsh6363 on this subject unchanged and its in 1 thread. > >>>>> > >>>>> Since it's been really bothering me, I think it's better I write > about > >>>>> it. > >>>>> > >>>>> Yesterday I went to assist one visually impaired candidate, as his > >>>>> scribe. This is the first time I was doing so and I didn't know how > >>>>> the process worked. > >>>>> I didn't anticipate I was in for a shocker. > >>>>> This was for SBI clerk prelim exam, which was scheduled for 4:30-6 PM > >>>>> on Powai. > >>>>> People with disability and without disability were taking the exam > >>>>> together at the same centre. > >>>>> As the candidate I was assisting arrived, we entered the centre. > First > >>>>> shock was here, when I realised apart from having just a separate > >>>>> entrance, there was nothing done to assist these folks. > >>>>> What I mean is, no was ensuring that a proper queue is maintained. > >>>>> No one was telling scribe, who were there for the first time as to > >>>>> what they need to do or make sure. The staff sitting at enrollment > >>>>> letter checking counter was borderline rude. > >>>>> After getting scribe form and attaching his and mine documents, we > >>>>> were told to go to examination hall. Before any person could proceed > >>>>> to examination hall, they were to supposed to keep bags in shelves > >>>>> which were kept in an area which seemed like parking area of the > >>>>> building. > >>>>> Since a person cannot take mobile to hall, all were supposed to keep > >>>>> them in their bags and keep those bags in those shelves. Another > >>>>> shocker here, there was no lock facility here and the way crowd was > >>>>> just all over the place, no wonder if anything gets stolen from here. > >>>>> Imagine going for an exam, you are already stressed, then no > >>>>> arrangements for people with disability, and then having to leave all > >>>>> your stuff just like that, out on open with no to be accountable if > >>>>> anything gets stolen. > >>>>> After this, I took this candidate to his respective examination hall. > >>>>> If not more, this hall was meant for minimum of 60 candidates plus > >>>>> their scribes. With scribes, that makes 120 people in one hall. A > >>>>> training hall where each desk has one system and seating for one > ONLY. > >>>>> But in such a facility, almost 120 of us were seated, shoulder to > >>>>> shoulder. > >>>>> As I didn't know what the process is how I am to help this person, I > >>>>> was waiting and thinking may be they'll tell something, some basic > >>>>> guidelines and guidance, but no. > >>>>> Absolutely no help from the staff assisting there or the > invigilators. > >>>>> What they were focused on was to just get the goddam signature/thumb > >>>>> impression and that's it. > >>>>> Coming to the exam. The exam was entirely on computer. > >>>>> So, how it works is, the questions will be served, the scribe has to > >>>>> read the question and the options and candidate has to tell the > >>>>> scribe, what answer option they wish to mark. > >>>>> For people with disability, the ONLY extra bit was they'd get 20 > >>>>> MINUTES EXTRA to attempt the paper, the paper which is same for > people > >>>>> with disability and without disability. > >>>>> To put things in perspective, imagine sitting for an exam, where the > >>>>> difficulty level of exam is same for all, but a person without > >>>>> disability is reading and processing the questions and options all by > >>>>> their own self and also, they can write themselves use rough sheet. > >>>>> Now, considering a person with disability, for whom the scribe has to > >>>>> read the question, explain the options, this candidate, has to > process > >>>>> this information, in case of VI, they cannot write because well, > >>>>> obviously. > >>>>> To add to that, 60 scribes are reading questions and options to their > >>>>> respective candidates in a room, where all are sitting shoulder to > >>>>> shoulder. How is anyone supposed to take the exam like that, HOW. > >>>>> Coming to the exam paper. > >>>>> The questions were same for people with disability and people without > >>>>> one. To put things in perspective, a person with disability has to > >>>>> attempt same questions the only difference being the person gets 20 > >>>>> mins extra. > >>>>> So basically imagine, you are assisting a visually impaired (VI) > >>>>> person, for whom, you'd read out the questions and options, that > >>>>> person has to retain that information and then tell the scribe what > >>>>> option to choose. > >>>>> Now imagine, a logical reasoning questions, arrangement type > question, > >>>>> where there are 7 things to be arranged, there are a few rules in > >>>>> question, this goes here and that goes there and all of it, and > having > >>>>> to retain all that information without writing. > >>>>> And then, figuring out the entire arrangement and telling your scribe > >>>>> which option to choose. > >>>>> There were 10+ questions based on this format on Logical Reasoning > >>>>> section. > >>>>> Coming to english section, questions were like arrangement of > >>>>> sentences to form a paragraph. FIB, identify wrong usage of word of > >>>>> spelling. > >>>>> I could see how the candidate I was with struggling to process this. > >>>>> Like you have to retain all the information and answer. > >>>>> And similarly, math section. > >>>>> > >>>>> Coming to issues. > >>>>> 1. Why no proper arrangements for helping people with disability. If > >>>>> authorities don't even care then why even make arrangement. > >>>>> 2. Why no proper arrangements to keep stuff? > >>>>> 3. Why can't staff be a bit more considerate? > >>>>> 4. Why can't the examination hall be such that it makes things > >>>>> comfortable and less stressful for these candidates. > >>>>> 5. How just giving extra 20 minutes makes a difference in these > >>>>> candidate's life when the entire exam 's format is not conducive. > >>>>> 6. How does scribe make sure that his ethics are not coming in > between > >>>>> while answering the questions? As in, I could solve questions but > >>>>> should mark correct answer or what the candidate is telling me to > >>>>> mark? 23/n Given my experience, the entire system is not designed to > >>>>> enable people with disability rather to disable them even further. > >>>>> Really heartbreaking and troubling. > >>>>> Have so much more to say, but closing it here. > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 6/25/19, Payal Kapoor <paya...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> here it is. i was able to open it from the conversation so presumed > >>>>>> everyone would. i hope this works: > >>>>>> > https://twitter.noclick_com/harsh6363/status/1142694845766492160?s=11 > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 6/25/19, Akash Kakkar <akash.mis...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> can you please provide the link for the tweet? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 6/25/19, Payal Kapoor <paya...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> hi, > >>>>>>>> this might not be visible for folks who don't use Twitter, and i > >>>>>>>> couldn't figure how to copy the content of the entire thread of > >>>>>>>> almost > >>>>>>>> 22 tweets. > >>>>>>>> in essence, a scribe who went to assist in writing the SBI exam. > he > >>>>>>>> has brought forth the apathy and thoughtlessness in the entire > >>>>>>>> process which is worth a read. > >>>>>>>> it begs to be escalated and brought to the attention of > >>>>>>>> authorities. i am certain there must have been some method to the > >>>>>>>> madness, when this whole process was being put into place. i also > >>>>>>>> know we have a vibrant and active community of visually impaired > >>>>>>>> bankers on top of things. > >>>>>>>> however, this reflects a lot on its own. > >>>>>>>> if someone can figure how to get the thread in text, i'm sure many > >>>>>>>> of you here would see what i mean. > >>>>>>>> Read on... > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Harsh (@harsh6363) > >>>>>>>> 23/06/19, 12:54 PM > >>>>>>>> Since it's been really bothering me, I think it's better I write > >>>>>>>> about it. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Yesterday I went to assist one visually impaired candidate, as his > >>>>>>>> scribe. 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AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the > >>> mails > >>> sent through this mailing list.. > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> search for me on facebook, google+, orkut.. > >> austinpinto.xavi...@gmail.com > >> follow me on twitter. > >> austinmpinto > >> contact me on skype. > >> austin.pinto3 > >> > >> > >> > >> Search for old postings at: > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ > >> > >> To unsubscribe send a message to > >> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in > >> with the subject unsubscribe. > >> > >> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > >> please > >> visit the list home page at > >> > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in > >> > >> > >> Disclaimer: > >> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of > >> the > >> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > >> > >> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the > mails > >> sent through this mailing list.. > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Avichal Bhatnagar > > M.Phil research scholar at > > School of Humanities and Social Sciences > > Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University > > > > > > > > Search for old postings at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to > > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in > > with the subject unsubscribe. > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > please > > visit the list home page at > > > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in > > > > > > Disclaimer: > > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of > the > > person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > > > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the > mails > > sent through this mailing list.. > > > > > > > -- > Gunjan Kumari > Assistant Professor, Department of English > Shivaji College (University of Delhi) > Raja Garden, Ring Road, New Delhi - 110027 > Research Scholar > Centre for English Studies, SLL/CSS > JNU, New Delhi - 110067 > > > > Search for old postings at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ > > To unsubscribe send a message to > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in > with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > please visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in > > > Disclaimer: > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of > the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails > sent through this mailing list.. > > > > > > Search for old postings at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ > > To unsubscribe send a message to > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in > with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > please visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in > > > Disclaimer: > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of > the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails > sent through this mailing list.. > > Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list..
