you are right sir, it has only two years completed. the RBI, CCPD and IBA
prescribed rules for blind persons. it will ofcourse come on practice. like
PWD act is still awaited to be fully complied. as the number of blind
customer increase, some of bank officials have to change their attitude
towards blind customers. better is to use the mechanism for complaint redresal framed in all banks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Viraj Kafle" <vka...@gmail.com>
To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


Well. I wrote that I am happy with SBI to illustrate a point, that is, if
I am happy with one institution\company\brand, I should not remain
complacent. The fact is I am not happy with SBI either. My experience with
the JNU branch of SBI has been pathetic and I am sure I would be seconded
on this by my friends in JNU. My experience with the branch where my
salary is processed is relatively better. Similar is the case is other
banks, their various branches and their visually challenged customers.
Further, the entire debate is not about only bank or the only case. There
is not one, but many wrongly treated cases with PNB as well as with other
banks. All of us would do well, therefore, to understand PNB as a case in
point and not a single organization being targeted.

Things would slowly change. But we cannot wait for the things to change.
We have to constantly work it out, and one established way of doing it is
to follow the rules and guidelines on one hand and to logically evaluate
the rules wherever needed, on the other.
----- Original Message ----- From: "BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA" <bsvermad...@gmail.com>
To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


i agreed that the discussion has not rolled back. though, it has become
healthy. one side you are happy with SBI. another side, some of blind
customers are unhappy with the same. banker has to follow two things:
banking law and banking practice. you can combine it by saying "banking
law and practice". this is law that all blind customers has full right to
avail banking facilities, and it is duty of banker to provide him all the
facilities without discrimination. but, only matter is law must come on
practice. slowly and steadily it will change. some of us may unhappy with
PNB, but, some of us are availing all facilities from the same. we can not
defame the entire organisation with one wrongly treated case. it defers
person to person. nobody can defame entire railway department by reporting
one derailment case. all banks have a mechanism to treat customer's
complaints. we have to approach right person on right way. again i am to
say that i never oppose the entire matter. if anyone of us have problem
availing services with PNB may contact me to my personal ID. i will assist
him up to maximum extent possible. PNB is my employer and it is my moral
duty to support my organisation.
thanks,

----- Original Message ----- From: "Viraj Kafle" <vka...@gmail.com>
To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking
about general undertaking that every customer has to give, but
unnecessary impositions made on people on the basis of their
disabilities. Is asking NOC from the parents of a capable visually
challenged  a general undertaking?

Of course, one can always choose between brands. But when brands indulge
in whatever they want in order to maximise profit or to corner people of
certain sections of society, only talking about choice would not be
politically correct. I am quite happy with SBI, but does that mean that
I should keep mum and remain complacent when someone, not me, is denied
or is illogically imposed by the PNB, or any other bank for that matter?
When a precedence gets established, particularly a wrong one, it does
not take much time to spread and be widely accepted. The same applies to
the precedence of denial. We can always boycott one for the other, but
at the same time it is our right as well as obligation to speak against
and thoroughly expose those involving in cornering certain sections of
society in one way or the other.
----- Original Message ----- From: "BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA" <bsvermad...@gmail.com>
To: <mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com>; <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


yes, now the entire discussion is rolled back. the matter is whether a
customer should give undertaking or not. if 2-3 line undertaking solve
your problem, then what is the matter. practice of undertaking is all
for general, not for blind customers.  we take undertaking in minor
account, some times in pension account, if a pensioner is to old,
unable to execute his transactions  and can not step up to the branch.
blind person has to face many problem in his daily living, banking is
one of them. do we get barrier free environment in our city? we have
PWD act for it. not only blind, each and every type  of disabled person
must have full right to get all services. whether it is banking,
telecom, railways, airlines, electricity. law and rules are the
guidelines. the person sitting on the chair, how he interpreted this
law. my suggestion is don't be a brand loyal, be a system loyal. if you
want to buy a soft drink, there are to many shops, being an employee of
PNB, if my bank denies any services to me, i won't hesitate to avail
that particular service from another bank. suppose, if your salary
account exist with ABC  bank but their loan rates are higher then XYZ
bank, then you will bank, then you will fopefully won't avail the loan
facility from that bank.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Mukesh Sharma" <mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com>
To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


Give me one such case.
When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language
express
"NO RISK of the BANK" on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking
has to
be signed by the customer  and I guess that is sufficient to save your
job!
This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so
called
disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently.
The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but
what
about your personal opinion.
Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM,
explain
me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help
in
your capacity to get every individual to enjoy facility equally be it
of ATM
or Cheque Book.
A BM is there to make life of customer easier and not difficult else
the
scheme of banking would have not been possible for illiterate and BPL
customer.
Thanks
Mukesh

-----Original Message-----
From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in
[mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI
SHANKAR
VERMA
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking

yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind
person,
cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if
that
blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee
who
entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his
details
on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk
goes to
that blind person?

----- Original Message -----
From: "AMEEN" <ameen.etta...@gmail.com>
To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to
VI
persons.
for, he can operate
it with the help of anybody whom he chooses.
that is non of the business of the bank.
if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it.
then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments?
are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated
by
RBI?
Ameen.----- Original Message ----- From: "BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA" <bsvermad...@gmail.com>
To: "B. R. Nautial" <brnaut...@gmail.com>; "access india"
<accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's
part is
discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly,
again i
am
to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should
require a
check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she
avail
check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his
account to continue this facility. some times we also make our
blindness
complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker,
i am
giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will
also
take
him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the
menus
and
commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so,
could
anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a
person
should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of
ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the
same
circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch
manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my
head
office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: "I
accept
your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our
branch
does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city
there
is
no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence,
your
application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible
ATM
will
be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind
customer
unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch,  independently,
further,
this matter has
been referred to our authorities."
thanking you,

----- Original Message ----- From: "B. R. Nautial" <brnaut...@gmail.com>
To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the
parties
are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities
are
quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of
various
banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to
give
all
these facilities to the them only because they know,
in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be
questioned
before the court and may be punished for their negligence.
In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and
satisfied
with
your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they
are
more sympathetic  with the blind. They don't create such problems
to any
of the blind person. More or less,  they are not our enemy so
the issue should be raised before the higher authorities  with the
help
of various NGO's.

With Regards
B. R. Nautial
Mobile: +919915073368
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kamal Verma" <kamalve...@pnb.co.in>
To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


Dear Sir,

The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should
have
produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents.  The
problems
might have been solved. Details of this blind  customer have not
been
discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers
availing
ATM,
cheque book and other facilities from PNB.

Regards.
Kamal Verma
----- Original Message ----- From: "Asudani, Rajesh" <rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in>
To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


       Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules
framed
by regulator?
If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank
or
government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with
them.
If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules,
there
will be no rule of law in this country.
Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there
is no
rational behind this question.
And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or
loss.
Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed
out
the
lacunae in the policy pertaining to it.
So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault.

Regards

"Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to
create
Him."

                                       --Arthur C. Clarke

(Rajesh Asudani)

Assistant General Manager,
Reserve Bank of India
Nagpur
09420397185
O: 0712 2806676
Res: 0712 2591349



-----Original Message-----
From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in
[mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of
Kamal
Verma
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking

Hello,

Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed
rules
and
circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to
issue
ATM
card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the
blind
customer
who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM
card
and
cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me.

Thanks.
Kamal Verma
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mahesh Panicker" <maheshspanic...@gmail.com>
To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking


dear Mr. Verma. .
surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I
haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I
had a
real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd
contacted the
higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to
complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of
India
ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my
card
after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with
the
PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned,
this
happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the
disabled on banking facility.
and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being
asked
to
provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you
heard
of
anything more obnoxious?
banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record
when
it
comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so
we
have
to take the struggle against such horrible institutional
nonsense to
all possible levels including the media.

On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma <kamalve...@pnb.co.in> wrote:
Hello all,

I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this
list.
I
am
availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit
card,
credit
card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind
community,
hence
if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher
authorities
of
PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer.

Thanks.
Kamal Verma

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mahesh Panicker"
<maheshspanic...@gmail.com>
To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking



> banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination
> against
> the
> visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any
> easier,
> but
> ones you open an account, getting the common banking
> facilities
> like
> ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an
> account
> with
> the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to
> get
> my
> ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be
> done.
> the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines,
> and
> although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of
> conditions.
> most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I
> believe
> some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in
> this
> regard,
> and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such
> initiatives.
>
> On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA <bsvermad...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation
> > before
> > the
banking
> > division and finance ministry. this is the only solution.
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "rahul cherian"
> > <rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com>
> > To: <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM
> > Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
> >
> >
> >
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the
> > > issues
> > > that
> > persons
> > > with visual impairment face with banking in India,
> > > especially
> > > in
> > >  >
leading
> > > banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible
> > > solutions.
> > > This
> > note
> > > has been asked for by some senior people I know
> > > personally in
> > > these
> > >  >
banks.
> > > If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let
> > > me
> > > know
> > > at
the
> > > earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note
> > > which has
> > > been
> > prepared
> > > earlier do forward that to me.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Rahul Cherian
> > > Inclusive Planet
> > >
> > > On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula
> > <sriniv...@srinivasu.org>wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Dinesh,
> > > > Can you provide us with little more details about your
> > > > problem
> > > > with
> > > > Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Srinivasu
> > > >
> > > > On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla <dineshshukla2...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >     dear friends I am not able to chatte with the
> > > > > help of
> > > > > Yahoo
> > > > massenger.
> > > > > please help me to do  the same telling me the steps.
> > > > > Dinesh
> > Shukla.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to >
> > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith
> > > > > the subject unsubscribe.
> > > > >
> > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make
> > > > > any
> > > > > other
> > > > >  >
> > > > >  > >
changes,
> > > > please
> > > > > visit the list home page at
> > > > >
> > > >
> >

http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sent from my mobile device
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Srinivasu Chakravarthula
> > > > Mobile: +91 990 081 0881
> > > > Website: http://www.srinivasu.org
> > > > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/sriniworld/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe send a message to
> > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject
> > unsubscribe.
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any
> > > > other
changes,
> > > > please visit the list home page at
> > > >
> > > >
> >

http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe send a message to
> > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject
> > unsubscribe.
> > >
> > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any
> > > other
> > > changes,
> > please visit the list home page at
> > >
> >

http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a message to
> > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject
> > unsubscribe.
> >
> > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any
> > other
> > changes,
please
> > visit the list home page at
> >

http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Mahesh S. Panicker
> C123;
> Dayanand Colony;
> Lajpat Nagar4;
>
> New delhi india.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe send a message to
accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject
unsubscribe.
>
> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other
> changes,
please visit the list home page at
>

http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
>
>



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--
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Lajpat Nagar4;

New delhi india.



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