Thanks for te reply.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 01:16:57PM +0800, Aaron Zauner wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Full disclosure: we (Hanno, a couple of other people and myself) are working 
> on GCM/GHASH attacks in real world implementations. A recent result of our 
> research can be found here: https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/475
> 
> I've put extensive effort into reading up on past research w.r.t. GCM/GHASH 
> since December.
> 
> > On 21 Jun 2016, at 04:25, timo <[email protected]> wrote:
> > 
> > I recently came across this story about NSA employees messing with crypto 
> > standards regarding internet telephony.
> > Whats interesting is some details about the use of GCM in real time 
> > applications like SRTP and ssh.
> 
> This article is entirely false and makes false assumptions. I've written to 
> the author and his security advisor back when it was published in 2014 that 
> it should be retracted or at least corrected.
> 
> > 
> > The story is in german therefore I'm translating the relevant parts:
> > 
> > 
> > "Dieser aktuelle NSA-Entwurf betrifft das Protokoll zur Verschlüsselung von 
> > Internettelefonie. Der dafür vorgesehene Blockchiffre-Modus namens "Galois
> > Counter Mode" (GCM) aber wurde bereits 2005 von einem namhaften 
> > Kryptografie-Eperten von Microsoft als generell angreifbar bezeichnet und 
> > vernichtend
> > kritisiert. Speziell und eindringlich wurde davor gewarnt, diese Chiffre 
> > für Echtzeit-Protokolle einzusetzen, als negatives Praxisbeispiel dafür 
> > wurde
> > die Verschlüsselung von Internettelefonie angeführt."
> > 
> > [...] The "Galois Counter Mode" (GCM) was heavely criticised in 2005 by a 
> > renowned  Cryptoexpert at Microsoft and described as generally vulnerable. 
> > It
> > was warned that especially in realtime application this cipher should not 
> > be used. [...]
> 
> Ferguson's critique is specifically on GCM with short tags. These aren't 
> employed by many protocols and difficult to exploit. TLS is certainly not one 
> of them.

So there are no common GCM implementations with those short tags. 
Neither TLS nor SSH are affected by this then?

> 
> > 
> > and
> > 
> > "Der finnische Kryptograf Markku-Juhani Saarinen hatte 2012 auf der 
> > Sicherheitskonferenz FSE 2012 in Washington ebenfalls vor dem Einsatz der
> > Blockchiffre gewarnt. Gerade bei Echtzeitprotokollen wie Secure Shell für 
> > Virtual Private Networks sei von GCM dringend abzuraten."
> > 
> > [...] The finnish cryptoexpert Markku-Juhani Saarinen had also warned not 
> > to use the blockcipher in 2012 at the securityconferenc FSE in Washington.
> > Especially the use with realtime applications like ssh for VPN is not 
> > recommended. [...]
> 
> That's a very specific and rather theoretical attack. Saarinen notes in his 
> paper that this isn't exploitable in any of the mentioned protocols and just 
> gives a recommendation in that regard. I recently had a mail exchange with 
> Saarinen on improving his (again; rather theoretical) attack.
> 
> > So my question is: Why is nobody talking about this?
> 
> Everybody is, as we note in our paper, no cryptographer (except for intel and 
> the original designers) are really happy with GCM. But it's the best deployed 
> choice we currently have for authenticated encryption. I have a individual 
> draft for AES-OCB for TLS that's going to be discussed at the next IETF 
> meeting in Berlin: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zauner-tls-aes-ocb-04 
> (patent issues resolved!)
> 
> > Even though it seems ok to use GCM with most https applications, it is also 
> > widely used and recommended with ssh and SRTP (like xmpp).
> 
> I'm not aware of any practical GCM related attacks on SSH nor SRTP. Neither 
> are (very) well known cryptographers I've talked to about this issue.
> 
> > Should it not be recommended to avoid the use of GCM in these later cases?
> 
> Certainly not. The alternative you currently have in these protocols is CCM 
> mode, which is a two-pass scheme, meaning it's performance is *very* slow 
> compared to GCM. On intel architectures you get AESNI which speeds up AES and 
> GCM due to instructions for multiplications of polynomials over finite fields 
> (Google: "Intel CMUL"). On architectures that do not support these 
> instructions you now have ChaCha20/Poly1305 as an alternative option (OpenSSH 
> added support for that in I think late 2013 already, by now it's an IETF 
> standard and will be available in TLS 1.2 and TLS 1.3, some implementations 
> do already support it. Google has supported it for a couple of years now 
> given that you're on an Android plattform and talking to their front-end 
> servers).
> 

Or you can use good old ctr mode. Nothing against that as far as I know. 
In the end performance isn't the most important thing with ssh 
connections. Thats rather something I worry about with TLS.

BTW. chacha20/poly1305 is now also available in firefox. 

> BTW - OpenSSL achieved outstanding cycle/per-byte numbers for AES-OCB on 
> AESNI architectures with patch due to Polyakov late last year: 
> https://github.com/openssl/openssl/commit/bd30091c9725bdad1c82bce10839f33ceaa5623b
> 
> Aaron



Attachment: signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

_______________________________________________
Ach mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.cert.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ach

Reply via email to