On 12.11.2012 11:41, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
On Monday, November 12, 2012 10:03:42 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:What users expect is to first see _all_ files and then be able to narrow them down until they see the one(s) they are looking for. This is how filtering works. First show everything, then reduce the results. If thisi agree that being able to start with any set of filtering criterion (filteype, tag, time) would be nice and should make it on to the functionality improvement list.
Absolutely. And in that case, we wouldn't even need the UI to be different before something is selected (which makes the UI more calm): Just show the whole UI right from the start so users can choose any filter/search to begin with. Two birds with one stone. For me this is more than just "nice": It is to be expected. When I already know the name of the file I am looking for or when I'm looking for a certain tag, why would I need to select the file type first? This would be just an unnecessary additional step.
showing everything immediately not only slows down initial presenation (nothing to do with Nepomuk; this would be equally true if we just listed every file in the user's home directory with normal filesystem reads), what is the benefit of that? or put differently: how often do you want to see "all of my files alphabetically"? if that is rarely / never the case then why use that as the default presentation?
Counter question: How often do you want to see "All of my documents/pictures/music files/etc." alphabetically? Not much more often, I suppose ;) I agree that showing all files in an unfiltered way isn't of much use, but file type isn't a better starting criterion either, because it doesn't reduce the amount of files shown to a useful number (1/4 or 1/5 of "too many" is usually still "too many"). The idea to make users select the file type first seems inspired by the current situation on Unix systems with the typical filetype-related folders in /home or in Windows with the filetype-related subfolders in the "My Files" folder. That makes some sense in folder hierarchies as it reduces the number of folders in the home directory by adding another hierarchy level (and can be used by applications as default saving folders). There you have to choose filetype first because you have to drill down through the hierarchy, but this structure is optional, every user is free to just put their own hierarchy in place, ignoring the default top-level folders (and I know many people who do just that). But that's where we're better: You don't have to drill down but instead you can look for any criterion you like immediately (which can be file type but is just as likely to be a different criterion).
Still I think a UI consisting of mostly empty space until you select something is rather confusing, so I think what we should show is something that tells the user "Choose a criterion by which to search and I'll show you the results". Even just putting a message "Select a filter criterion on the right or enter a search term above" in the main area which disappears as soon as something is tapped/entered would be better than nothing. Or just putting big arrows in there that point to where you can select a filter or enter a search term. Anything that makes clear
a) why currently no files are shown b) what you can do to make it show filesCurrently it just looks weird because usually file browsers show you _something_ in the main area when you open them.
i'd also suggest that showing all the files immediately will encourage people to simply page through the long list. having them first make a selection (either by searching or by selecting some filters to start applying) encourages "correct" (or at least more efficient) usage.
Agreed. But we have to make clear to them what we want them to do (see above).
perhaps where this gets confusing is that since Files starts with the null set, initial interaction results in additive filtering. further interaction can result in subtractive filtering. this is a common interaction pattern in daily (non-computer) life for people, so i'm not convinced it's bad. consider deciding on a hot drink on a cold day .. tea or coffee? only once i pick "tea" am i actually presented with concrete items and choices, perhaps in the form of a box of tea bags .. (additive) and now i get to pick: which kind of tea? (subtractive) cream / sugar? (additive again). moving between additive and subtractive modes is quite easy for us ...
Yes, but you can also go to the cafe and say "Earl grey tea please, with milk and sugar".
perhaps a useful question is whether we are trying to create a set that
matches an internal set of criterion ("i like black tea, but it needs to be
sweetened to not be bitter") or are we combing through a general set for a
pre-selected item ("i'm looking through a jigsaw puzzle box for pieces with
straight edges with blue sky on them")
the mental processes are not the same. i wonder which Files is currently
better suited to, and which it ought to be made for.
Currently the startup experience is definitely better suited to indistinct browsing (if nothing else, you always know the type of the file you're looking for, so in that case it's a useful first step). If you are looking for something more specific, selecting a filetype first is unnecessary. I think both modes (browsing and searching) are equally important and should - and can - both be accommodated.
i'm going to do some digging over the next couple to see what i can find about this in academia.
Ok. _______________________________________________ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
