That is entirely believable (about WINS being a mess). JET Blue used to suck. In Win2k, finally the older JET Blue 200 / 400 series was replaced by the version (ESE97) that underwent the top-to-bottom rewrite during Exch 5.5.
That is why I asked if it was a 4.0 NT server. I'm not interested in chasing down a corruption bug in old JET 400, but if there are consistent corruptions in ESE 97+ variants, I'm curious to know how they're showing up. If it's in ESE98+ I'm especially curious ... or at least as curious as time allows. That said, joe's comment about how WINS admins treat thier servers is very interesting, I'll have to keep that in mind when people claim such a server is corrupt. Thanks joe for the info! BTW, I don't think WINS was even in NT 3.50, I thought it showed up in 3.51? Cheers, -BrettSh [msft] This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Darren Mar-Elia wrote: > In the NT 3.50 days, WINS was a mess. I'm sorry but no amount of good > design would help it. It just sucked. It got progressively better in NT > 4.0 but I saw lots of corruptions of many kinds in 3.5x and I knew a > thing or two about WINS. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe > Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 8:52 PM > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Adding custom fields to AD > > I would guess that it never got that far. My experience with folks > troubleshooting WINS is that they don't look very deep, someone can't > resolve XYZ server name and they stop the service, delete the DB, and > repopulate and call the DB corrupt. > > I think I said this in another post but I have never seen a corrupt WINS > DB though I have had lots of people tell me that WINS was corrupt. I > have seen lots of dorked up individual entries and simply deleting that > entry and reregistering gets everything working fine again. The worst > cases I have seen have been really poorly configured SAMBA machines > stomping on domain records though I once heard of a really misconfigured > Windows machine knocking a Fortune 50 down for a bit because someone > built there own domain with the same domain name as the corporate domain > and registered it in the production WINS environment. The solution there > ended up being shut down WINS and deleting the WINS DB and letting it > rebuild... > > joe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brett Shirley > Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 8:24 AM > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org > Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Adding custom fields to AD > > Tom, what revision of the server OS was the WINS server? NT 4.0? Did > you ever determine if the WINS DB corruptions were being exposed at the > app/WINS level (esentutl /g succeeds) or ESE level (esentutl /g fails)? > > esentutl /g (the svc/DB must be offline for this) is the (slightly > simplistic) method for determining if the corruption is exposing itself > at the app logic level or the ESE level. > > Was the server being hard powered down (power outage)? > > Just curious. > > Cheers, > -BrettSh [msft] - ESE Developer > > > On Sat, 8 Oct 2005, Tom Kern wrote: > > > I've had the reverse- > > last place i worked at had corrupted WINS at least once every 2 > > months(this could of been due to my lousy admin skills) i've never had > > > issues with dns(could be my dumb luck) now i work for a corp that has > > netbios/tcp disabled and relies solely on dns(both MS and BIND) with > > no name resolution issues. > > also wins replication seems much more complex than standard > > primary/secondary dns replication. > > and i'm not one to think i know anything as an admin or would even > > think of getting into such a disscussion with someone as experienced > > and knowldgable as you, but i've always found dns easier than wins and > > > netbios names in general. > > my only diffculty came with learning dns on BIND/Linux and just > > wrapping my head around AD intergrated dns when i first came to > Windows. > > sometimes when you learn something via the command line, using the gui > > > just confuses things. > > then again i'm probably one of those guys who "thinks" he knows dns > > but really doesn't know anything and hasen't found out yet :( > > what would you think would be a good replacement for dns/wins? > > thanks > > > > On 10/8/05, joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > I wasn't saying I like WINS better than DNS or vice versa, just said > > > > I don't like DNS. I especially dislike the AD/DNS integration. I > > > don't like chicken and egg problems. > > > BTW, as you bring up WINS. 1. I've never had a corrupted WINS > Database. > > > 2. Fewer admins had name resolution issues replication based issues > > > with WINS than they do with DNS. 3. The complexity of DNS seems to > > > put many admins off the deep end, interestingly enough, the same > > > admins who said they couldn't figure out WINS say they know all > > > about > DNS. > > > But again, my comment wasn't I like WINS more than DNS, or I like > > > any name resolution systems better than DNS, it was simply I don't > > > like > DNS. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Tom Kern > > > *Sent:* Saturday, October 08, 2005 12:42 PM > > > *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] Adding custom fields to AD > > > > > > ok, i'll bite. > > > GPO's, i understand but whats there to hate about DNS? > > > its better than WINS. > > > I've never had a corrputed dns database. > > > thanks > > > > > > On 10/8/05, joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Yeah, GPOs aren't AD. GPOs are an application that use AD. I hate > GPOs. > > > > DNS > > > > too. > > > > > > > > :o) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of Rick > > > > Kingslan > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 11:19 AM > > > > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org > > > > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Adding custom fields to AD > > > > > > > > Interesting question - and as to the 'implode point' for ESE/Jet > > > > Blue, Brettsh can answer that one. I'm pretty sure that we have a > > > > good idea on where the point of diminishing returns is, but it > > > > likely FAR exceeds what anyone might practically do today - even > > > > with added classes and attributes. > > > > > > > > As for why ESE - it works, it is self maintaining to a great > > > > degree, there is very little overhead in the DB, and it is quite > > > > optimized to the type of work that is required for AD. Brettsh can > > > > > certainly add more. > > > > > > > > I am one for preaching more svelte attitudes on your AD. As joe > > > > mentions > > > > - > > > > it's for authN purposes first and foremost. It CAN handle DNS, it > > > > does GPO (though - truth be told the majority of GPO function is > > > > but a link to an attribute, while the actual GPO pieces reside in > > > > SYSVOL, so not much AD > > > > - > > > > lots of FRS), etc. > > > > > > > > App Parts make sense in some arenas where the amount of data is > > > > going to be very small and contained to just a few areas. I, too, > > > > like joe advocate ADAM. I try to sell ADAM constantly as THE > > > > solution for most anything that doesn't have to do with authN. > > > > Customer AppDev wants to stuff new things > > > > > > > > into AD constantly. Partly, they don't know the down sides. > > > > Partly, they think they have to learn something new. Partly, they > > > > don't really care if YOUR AD is affected by their decisions, as > > > > long as they deliver the solution in the timeframe specified. So, > > > > it's up to you, Mr. Admin and Mr. > > > > Architect > > > > to tell whoever wants to use your AD, no - we don't do it that way > > > > > because it's very bad. We will use ADAM. Get used to it. > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of Mylo > > > > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 8:04 PM > > > > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org > > > > Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Adding custom fields to AD > > > > > > > > That's a good point about plonking stuff in AD.... a case of once > > > > a good > > > > > > > > thing comes along everyone wants to climb aboard. I remember doing > > > > > ZENworks stuff with Novell where all the application configuration > > > > > information for software distribution was shunted into > > > > NDS/E-Directory... all that bloat > > > > > > > > adds up replication-wise (still, at least there was partitioning). > > > > > > > > One thing I am curious about though is why MS opted for JET as the > > > > > DB of choice for AD.. was it the only viable option at the time ? > > > > What's the ceiling on actual database size before it caves in > (performance-wise)? > > > > > > > > Mylo > > > > > > > > joe wrote: > > > > > > > > >I am going to basically say what the other said only I am going > > > > >to put it this way > > > > > > > > > >IF the data needs to be available at all locations or a majority > > > > >of locations where your domain controllers are located, consider > > > > >adding the data to AD. > > > > > > > > > >IF the data is going to be needed only at a couple of sites or a > > > > >single site, put them into another store. My preference being > > > > >AD/AM unless you > > > > > > > > >need to do some complicated joins or queries of the data that > > > > >LDAP doesn't support. > > > > > > > > > >There is also the possibility of using app partitions but if you > > > > >were going to go that far, just use AD/AM. > > > > > > > > > >The thing I have about sticking this data into AD is that AD is > > > > >becoming, in many companies, a dumping ground of all the crap > > > > >that was in all the other directories in the company. I realize > > > > >this was the initial view from MS on how this should work but I > > > > >worked in a large company and thought that was silly even then. > > > > > > > > > >The number one most important thing for AD is to authenticate > > > > >Windows > > > > users. > > > > >Every time you dump more crap into AD you are working towards > > > > >impacting that capability or the capability to quickly restore or > > > > > >the ability to quickly add more DCs. The more I see the one stop > > > > >everything loaded into ADs the more I think that the NOS > > > > >directory > should be NOS only. > > > > >Plus, I wonder how long before we hit some interesting object > > > > >size limits. I have asked for details from some MS folks a couple > > > > > >of times on the issues with admin limit exceeded errors that you > > > > >get when overpopulating a normal multivalue attribute (i.e. not > > > > >linked) and it causing no other attributes to be added to the > > > > >object. I wonder what other > > > > limits like that exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve > > > > >Shaff > > > > >Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 12:16 PM > > > > >To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org > > > > >Subject: [ActiveDir] Adding custom fields to AD > > > > > > > > > >Group, > > > > > > > > > >My manager wanted me to check, even though, I don't think that it > > > > > >is possible, but, I will present the question. > > > > > > > > > >He would like to add some custom fields, about 30, to AD. He > > > > >would like to add bio information into AD to be pulled by > > > > >Sharepoint and other applications for people to read. I think > > > > >that this is a waste of time, space and effort. However, it is > > > > >not my call and if this is what he > > > > wants.... > > > > > > > > > >What are everyone's thoughts on the topic? > > > > > > > > > >Thanks > > > > >S > > > > >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > > > > >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > > > > >List archive: > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > > > > > > > >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > > > > >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > > > > >List archive: > > > > >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > > > > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > > > > List archive: > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > > > > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > > > > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > > > > List archive: > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > > > > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > > > > List archive: > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > List archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > List archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/
