Hi Neil and Joe,
what I meant is that I'd evaluate a price-tag of third-party software against waiting for the next release and deploying the first machine (if something would be fixed / easier with a single installation of the next OS). So: 1. Get the price for the 3rd Party Product 2. Evaluate if you'd use it with the next version 3. Evaluate how many machines you'd have to deploy to get the feature 4. Judge how long it'll take you until the next version is RTM + you are ready to roll out #3s amount of machines 5. Compare if you are willing to invest #1 amount of money to get the feature before #4 So if a 3rd Party Vendor is telling me that the time is right to get their product, I'd still evaluate upper factors before making a decision. If it's a special offer right now it might affect the math ;-) Gruesse - Sincerely, Ulf B. Simon-Weidner Profile & Publications: <blocked::http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=35E388DE-4885-4308-B489-F 2F1214C811D> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=35E388DE-4885-4308-B489-F2F1214C811 D Weblog: <blocked::http://msmvps.org/UlfBSimonWeidner> http://msmvps.org/UlfBSimonWeidner Website: <blocked::http://www.windowsserverfaq.org/> http://www.windowsserverfaq.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Montag, 11. Dezember 2006 09:52 To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Quest Recovery Manager I disagree with your disagreement :) How long do you wait? Do you wait until Intel releases a new chip too? What about the version after Longhorn?? There are always new technologies on the horizon - my company needs solutions to its problems now, based upon the technology it uses today. When assessing solutions, I look at the relevant roadmaps and how future proof that solution might be as well as the solution provider's track record in the space studied - but the major decision points always rest with its suitability to the present situation. neil _____ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ulf B. Simon-Weidner Sent: 10 December 2006 12:06 To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Quest Recovery Manager I do disagree since we might have other withes, issues, possibilities with Longhorn, so I'd wait when spending a lot of money. Gruesse - Sincerely, Ulf B. Simon-Weidner Profile & Publications: <BLOCKED::http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=35E388DE-4885-4308-B489-F 2F1214C811D> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=35E388DE-4885-4308-B489-F2F1214C811 D Weblog: <BLOCKED::http://msmvps.org/UlfBSimonWeidner> http://msmvps.org/UlfBSimonWeidner Website: <BLOCKED::http://www.windowsserverfaq.org/> http://www.windowsserverfaq.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jackson Shaw Sent: Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2006 00:51 To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Quest Recovery Manager It is an excellent time to purchase Quest software. (In my opinion, my views do not represent my employer J J) _____ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Desmond Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 1:54 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Quest Recovery Manager Yeah. Sit down with your team and figure out what it is you need - must have, would like to have, and nice to have. Then, tell all the vendors you want a little webinar (they love these), and then compare your notes after each/all of them again. Rule out any ones now that don't do the trick Then go get ready to have it shoved way up your ass when they give you the pricing. Then you can suggest (if they haven't already) that they come discuss it in further and plan on a lunch/dinner or two on their dime while you further discuss how expensive their stuff is and what they can do for you to make it more attractive. The Quest guys told me the other day they had a lot of leeway on some pricing for one of my clients so I'm wondering if this is the end of the year for the salesmen and they need to make their year this month (if so this is an excellent time to buy Quest software). Now that said, I've worked in a few large shops, and we haven't had any of this frilly fancy shit. It's expensive, I hate the per head/per seat/per whatever pricing, and frankly all I think it does is idiot proof what's already there. Rather than having something do it for you, why don't you learn how it does it, because then you'll be smarter, and you can go get a new better job with your new found talents. That said there is some cool shit from quest and NetIQ and those guys - I'm into the change control/management stuff in shops where there are too many cooks in the kitchen. Quest's migration stuff is of course great if you can afford it. Thanks, Brian Desmond [EMAIL PROTECTED] c - 312.731.3132 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Myrick, Todd (NIH/CC/DCRI) [E] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 3:23 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Quest Recovery Manager I don't think there are many independent rankings out there. You have to figure that Windows ITPro and SearchWindows are probably the easiest sources to get access to online, but they are influenced by ad dollars sometimes. It is possible that Burton Group and possibly Gartner have done some research.. But I doubt it. I know that directions on Microsoft hasn't covered it. It is a pretty niche topic. I think the best way to approach this is to have a good old fashion bake off of the technologies. Depending how big a player you are, you can probably get Quest, Netpro, Veritas, and Commvalt to step-up. I would say that all the technologies are pretty stable at the moment; there isn't a lot of innovation going on anymore, so it is pretty hard to make a mistake choosing one of these products. Todd _____ From: Tim Onsomu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 2:06 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org; ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Quest Recovery Manager Does anybody know what independent rankings look like for AD DR tools? -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Gil Kirkpatrick Sent: Wed 12/6/2006 9:59 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Quest Recovery Manager <shamelss plug> NetPro has an AD data recovery product called RestoreADmin that competes very well with the Quest product. It's solves the AD object recovery problem nicely. See http://www.netpro.com/products/restoreadmin/index.cfm. </shameless plug> -gil -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 7:37 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Quest Recovery Manager Todd, thanks for your insight. Good points to think about. James Masters Systems Architecture and Engineering The Kroger Co. Office: (859) 363-2346 Cell: (859) 653-8644 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Myrick, Todd (NIH/CC/DCRI) [E] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:14 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Quest Recovery Manager Same here... Good stuff. To be fair though, most of the major AD players have these tools now. The thing about the Quest (Aelita) tool was its use of their own APIs to address issues like Domain Local Groups etc. I haven't kept up with the latest versions so I am not sure what direction they have gone since 2003. Latest information I remember was they offered you the option to use the MS API methods for recovery, or their special brew for more advanced recovery options. Now if put some extra effort into your query, you might get this thread nice and hot, and generate input from people like Stuart Kwan discussing supportability issues using the various recovery methods, Guido & Vladimir discussing in great depth the inherent problems of group recovery, various opinions on how to use isolates sites with rubber chickens, MIIS, ADAM to reanimate deleted objects (This seems to be a favorite topic of Gil's to use to fill in spots at DEC)... did I forget anyone... hmm maybe Robbie might take time away from work on his fields medal or latest cookbook to write you a Monad shell script that Joe will find a way to compile into a .exe to execute from a ADFIND query pipe. In all seriousness though, when evaluating DR feature for AD you will have a lot of things to consider, technologies being just one. The nature of the type of AD objects you want to recover and in what state should be considered (Groups, GPO's, etc, attribute data). How much time you want to dedicate to this operation? How much you want to spend? And who will support you if the recovery operations fail or seem to cause more problems. If you are looking just to recover deleted users, the various free tools out there will do just fine. I highly recommend that you start your DR project today by just using the good'old MS backup utility at a minimum to make a MST formatted backup of the system state and data from a domain controller in each of your domains you think has the most current AD data in your organization. That pretty much guarantees you can recover every object given that you have the data in some backup. And to all the people I mentioned above. Happy Holidays... and New Year. Todd -----Original Message----- From: Day, James (NPS) Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 8:03 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Cc: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Quest Recovery Manager Hi James We bought this when it was an Aelita tool and loved the product - it pretty much paid for itself in one step the second month we were using it. The product is still good but I have nothing good to say about Quest support (but I could complain for hours about it if I am allowed to). There are a couple of other similar ones that may also be worth. Regards; James R. Day Active Directory Core Team Office of the Chief Information Officer National Park Service 202-354-1464 202-230-2983 (CEL) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ger.com Sent by: To [EMAIL PROTECTED] ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org ail.activedir.org cc Subject 12/05/2006 05:11 [ActiveDir] Quest Recovery Manager PM EST Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] tivedir.org Does anybody have anything particularly good or bad to say about Quest's Recovery Manager product? We are evaluating it for an 2 forests, and 3 domains. As always, thanks for all of your insight and expertise. -James List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/ PLEASE READ: The information contained in this email is confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. 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