On Wed, 2009-07-15 at 10:48 -0400, alastair wrote: > If you hate the system of copyright, simply don't copyright your own work, > no-one will force you to!. >
not true. work has copyright by default. you can't escape it. Some territories allow you to contribute material to the 'public domain', but this is not everywhere and it is an active process, not the default im not sure what NZs equivalent to Public Domain is...anyone know? > Was the old system of making records and expecting royalties from sales and > performance "stopping the flow of information"? > yes :) > Same old : those who can't imagine why we might need these funds, say we > should do without. > or maybe they can just imagine another way of doing things. actually, you need to be able to see another way of doing things, as by your own admission the method you describe is not working adam > alastair galbraith > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 5:24 PM > Subject: Ada_list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 13 > > > > Send Ada_list mailing list submissions to > > [email protected] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/ada_list > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > [email protected] > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [email protected] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Ada_list digest..." > > > > > > ADA list Digest Version > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: copyright: do we have an opinion? (Douglas Bagnall) > > 2. Re: Ada_list Digest, further to copy rights (Phil Dadson) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:21:42 +1200 > > From: Douglas Bagnall <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Ada_list] copyright: do we have an opinion? > > To: ada list <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > Julian Oliver wrote: > > > >> Without author-defined, legally-recognised copying rights I sincerely > >> doubt > >> there would be a culture of contribution such that Free Software projects > >> like > >> Firefox, Linux, BSD, (Flossmanuals) or Apache could exist, let alone art > >> in an > >> aggressive mass-market culture industry. > > > > > > Speaking of art, mainstream visual art doesn't rely on copyright at all > > -- it only cares about providence and exclusive possession. All the > > most expensive paintings are out of copyright. This continues with new > > media art, as far as I know: collectors buy expensive DVD-Rs and not > > licenses. > > > > > > Douglas > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:25:19 +1200 > > From: Phil Dadson <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Ada_list] Ada_list Digest, further to copy rights > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > hi all, > > bit early for vino Adam but coffee and brandy, definitely . . .. set > > hair alight, chant a few rites . . mmmmm ! > > Hey, hats off to your knowledge of the background guys, but you can't > > get past the fact that many artists want and need protection of > > authorship against exploitation, and this is a hard won right. Some > > also survive on royalties and good luck to them. We will never get rid > > of copyright as such, but we can change the way its thought about and > > utilised. Its one huge hassle, but with enough pressure terms at least > > are negotiable for change. > > Seems to me, that what we want ideally is a method where the artists > > assign rights as they see fit, allowing for a full range of options > > from no copyright to licensing work where its relevant. > > The issue right now here in NZ is how to address a draconian law that > > threatens censorship of access as punishment for piracy. Most of us > > would agree this is simply reactive and plainly stupid in these times. > > The politicians and advocates we have however, are the ones we elect so > > there's some collective responsibility here, as there also is to > > respond. But to throw out the baby with the bath water would be just > > as reactive. > > ADA has a voice and it needs to be heard in this debate. I propose the > > committee draw up a statement for release that reflects opinions and > > run it past the list for comment, but lets not get bogged down with it. > > cheers, Phil > > > > On 15/07/2009, at 7:29 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > >> Send Ada_list mailing list submissions to > >> [email protected] > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/ada_list > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> [email protected] > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> [email protected] > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of Ada_list digest..." > >> > >> > >> ADA list Digest Version > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. Re: copyright: do we have an opinion? (adam hyde) > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:29:01 +0200 > >> From: adam hyde <[email protected]> > >> Subject: Re: [Ada_list] copyright: do we have an opinion? > >> To: Julian Oliver <[email protected]> > >> Cc: ada list <[email protected]> > >> Message-ID: <1247599741.7582.11.ca...@esetera> > >> Content-Type: text/plain > >> > >> > >> On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 20:42 +0200, Julian Oliver wrote: > >>> > >>>> shall we open the floor to others? ;) > >>> > >>> Hehe, indeedy. > >>> > >>> I suppose most Ada'ers are sleeping around about now. > >>> > >> > >> > >> hehe! see, thats the problem with email. half the people are asleep > >> cause its winter, the others are running around outside in the sun > >> > >> we should have this discussion in a bar, then it would be much more > >> fun. > >> we could drink wine, i could set my hair on fire, you could break yer > >> laptop... > >> > >> :D > >> > >> adam > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> Julian > >>>>> > >>>>>> As far as i see it, its hard to say copyright is pro-culture. You > >>>>>> can > >>>>>> say culture hasn't completely died under copyright. I would agree > >>>>>> with > >>>>>> this. But it hasn't helped. > >>>>> > >>>>> Copyright is just a concept, and there's nothing wrong with the > >>>>> concept in > >>>>> itself IMHO.. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> > >>>>> Julian > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Copyright can be pro-culture - it's just that /most/ copyright is > >>>>>>> broken, > >>>>>>> perverted by the 'free' market - exploited to the contrary. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> However, regardless of my beliefs, the position of saying > >>>>>>>> copyright is > >>>>>>>> broken is more provocative and might encourage more people to > >>>>>>>> think > >>>>>>>> about it than taking a position on the wording of legislation. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It may do that, yep, as long as people are educated as to the > >>>>>>> options otherwise. > >>>>>>> As it stands I come across a lot of people that claim there is > >>>>>>> only Copyright > >>>>>>> (aka RIAA style) and Public Domain, which reflects a gross lack > >>>>>>> of education on > >>>>>>> the topic.. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Julian > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Tue, 2009-07-14 at 11:28 +0200, Julian Oliver wrote: > >>>>>>>>> ..on Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 10:44:23PM +0200, adam hyde wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> hey > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> on the copyright issue ... > >>>>>>>>>> rp > >>>>>>>>>> i think it would be a good opportunity to provoke people to > >>>>>>>>>> think about > >>>>>>>>>> copyright - to release a statement way outside of the > >>>>>>>>>> arguments of this > >>>>>>>>>> debate, and go for the throat. in my mind that is a statement > >>>>>>>>>> outlining > >>>>>>>>>> that we think the current debate is ridiculous because > >>>>>>>>>> copyright is > >>>>>>>>>> broken and useless. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> so, perhaps the position to take, and one that might provoke > >>>>>>>>>> people to > >>>>>>>>>> think and might also catch some news-space, is to tell people > >>>>>>>>>> that we > >>>>>>>>>> dont want copyright at all... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hrmm.. as you (very) well know there is nothing wrong with > >>>>>>>>> copyright in itself, > >>>>>>>>> in fact copyright can't be avoided. Since the 1886 Berne > >>>>>>>>> convention it's been a > >>>>>>>>> naturally assigned right at the point of creating something: > >>>>>>>>> you can't > >>>>>>>>> not-have-made something you've already made. It's the terms of > >>>>>>>>> which that are > >>>>>>>>> later defined and it's here that problems propogate.. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> There are socially destructive forms of copyright and socially > >>>>>>>>> creative forms of > >>>>>>>>> copyright. The GPL is very much a copyright license as are all > >>>>>>>>> the creative > >>>>>>>>> commons licenses (as you know), both of which were created to > >>>>>>>>> be productive at > >>>>>>>>> the user level. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> The difference between socially destructive copyright (no right > >>>>>>>>> to remix / no > >>>>>>>>> right to learn from / what you buy is not yours to share) and > >>>>>>>>> socially > >>>>>>>>> productive/creative copyright (right to remix, modify, > >>>>>>>>> distribute) needs to be > >>>>>>>>> emphasised. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> To these ends I think one of the terms that really needs to be > >>>>>>>>> squashed is > >>>>>>>>> 'CopyLeft'; it implies that Creative Commons and the GPL are > >>>>>>>>> somehow > >>>>>>>>> 'anti-copyright' which is far from the case. This confuses > >>>>>>>>> people greatly and > >>>>>>>>> only serves to undermine any real education on positive, albeit > >>>>>>>>> reformist, > >>>>>>>>> directions in policy that benefit the public in general. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Julian > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 2009-07-12 at 14:46 +1200, Douglas Bagnall wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> hello list. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> You have probably heard of fuss over "section 92a", a > >>>>>>>>>>> proposed amendment > >>>>>>>>>>> to copyright law that would allow for your internet > >>>>>>>>>>> connection to be cut > >>>>>>>>>>> when someone says you are using it piratically. It got > >>>>>>>>>>> passed as law, > >>>>>>>>>>> put on hold, thrown out, and is now perhaps fighting its way > >>>>>>>>>>> back. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Throughout all of this ADA has had no position. It seems to > >>>>>>>>>>> me that we > >>>>>>>>>>> share considerable membership (that's you list subscribers) > >>>>>>>>>>> with the > >>>>>>>>>>> Creative Freedom Foundation who led the battle against > >>>>>>>>>>> section 92 -- but > >>>>>>>>>>> we probably also share members with APRA and SPADA who > >>>>>>>>>>> supported the > >>>>>>>>>>> proposal. So if we do take a position, it is not immediately > >>>>>>>>>>> clear what > >>>>>>>>>>> it should be. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> The CFF and its opponents are being terribly pragmatic and > >>>>>>>>>>> tactical in > >>>>>>>>>>> what they call for. They are fighting over what the actual > >>>>>>>>>>> law will look > >>>>>>>>>>> like, letter by letter. Personally I'm in favour of a far > >>>>>>>>>>> more anarchic > >>>>>>>>>>> situation than anything the CFF dares advocate. I understand > >>>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>> reasons, of course, but it makes me wonder: if ADA expresses > >>>>>>>>>>> an official > >>>>>>>>>>> opinion, should it be unashamedly fringe? Should put out > >>>>>>>>>>> press releases > >>>>>>>>>>> like they did manifestos 100 years ago? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Probably nothing will come of this. I'm just curious as to > >>>>>>>>>>> whether ADA > >>>>>>>>>>> members want their trust to be making statements on stuff > >>>>>>>>>>> like this, and > >>>>>>>>>>> if so, what they want said. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Douglas > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>> Ada_list mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>> http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/ > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> Adam Hyde > >>>>>>>>>> Founder FLOSS Manuals > >>>>>>>>>> German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 > >>>>>>>>>> Email : [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>> irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> "Free manuals for free software" > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.flossmanuals.net/about > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>> Ada_list mailing list > >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>> http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Adam Hyde > >>>>>>>> Founder FLOSS Manuals > >>>>>>>> German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 > >>>>>>>> Email : [email protected] > >>>>>>>> irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> "Free manuals for free software" > >>>>>>>> http://www.flossmanuals.net/about > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> Ada_list mailing list > >>>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>> http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Adam Hyde > >>>>>> Founder FLOSS Manuals > >>>>>> German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 > >>>>>> Email : [email protected] > >>>>>> irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals > >>>>>> > >>>>>> "Free manuals for free software" > >>>>>> http://www.flossmanuals.net/about > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Ada_list mailing list > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/ > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Adam Hyde > >>>> Founder FLOSS Manuals > >>>> German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 > >>>> Email : [email protected] > >>>> irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals > >>>> > >>>> "Free manuals for free software" > >>>> http://www.flossmanuals.net/about > >>>> > >>> > >> -- > >> Adam Hyde > >> Founder FLOSS Manuals > >> German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 > >> Email : [email protected] > >> irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals > >> > >> "Free manuals for free software" > >> http://www.flossmanuals.net/about > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ada_list mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/ada_list > >> > >> > >> End of Ada_list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 12 > >> **************************************** > >> > >> > > www.sonicsfromscratch.co.nz > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ada_list mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/ada_list > > > > > > End of Ada_list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 13 > > **************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Ada_list mailing list > [email protected] > http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/ -- Adam Hyde Founder FLOSS Manuals German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563 Email : [email protected] irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals "Free manuals for free software" http://www.flossmanuals.net/about _______________________________________________ Ada_list mailing list [email protected] http://aotearoadigitalarts.org.nz/
