Hello all, Time to put on my Project Lead hat, I suppose.
On 25/07/2020 14:12, Fungi4All wrote: > Thank you very much for the clarifications Lee, I am sure many will > find an interest in the content as well. > > I only use openbox and borrow some desktop applications here and > there from other desktop sets, like lxterminal and lxappearance. > Some I have to admit instead of building on my own I borrowed from > void-musl. So much of the ongoing change doesn't really affect me. > If you only offered i3 and jwm that would have been fine and plenty > for my needs, but I understand others prefer a more complete/full > desktop. The only sources of information about sddm and ck problems I > have found relate to setup and possibly the existence of a .xinitrc > calling up ck. Some DMs seem to have an internal dependency for > ck-launch ck-daemon and if an auxiliary file/conf calls up ck from > within a ck session that breaks ck. But I haven't had direct > experience with sddm for a long while. We do have SDDM mostly working with ConsoleKit, but there are bugs and the patches are not merged upstream. And upstream isn't interested, so each bump we have to reintegrate the patches, which means more work. The main issue is that the ConsoleKit daemon crashes after 10 minutes idle if media is playing. This is reproduceable by not just us, but also OpenBSD. Once the daemon crashes, you are no longer able to reboot or shut down the computer without using a root command prompt. For a distro that wants to be user-friendly, or at the very least *not user hostile*, that is completely unacceptable. And if the OpenBSD people can't even figure it out, there is little hope for us, without a significant amount of time we could be spending on better things (like below). > I would rather see development and energy spent on the core system, > init/service management than getting a screenlocker working with > live-video-feed. I assume there are reasons to focus some marketing > efforts one direction or another and it is not really my business. > I wish I had the abilities to contribute to the project but I am > still in the learning process to reach stage 0. The core system for 1.0 is done. Now we are focusing on the polish so people without much Linux experience can use it, so that we can ship 1.0 and start looking to the future. We are still interested in porting the NetBSD userland to replace coreutils, and replacing libtool with slibtool, and various other de-GNU stuff. We are still interested in doing the plumbing work to make language runtimes run on ppc64/musl. We have aarch64_be, armv6/armv7, and SPARC64 ports planned. But the core system is done for 1.0. And now it's time to polish it. And I would rather work on those goals than try to keep CK2 chugging along, just so we can avoid shipping elogind. I want to note here as well that I am working with actual real people locally (over the phone, due to the global plague) to understand what real people need. I am working with young and old. There is everyone from a recovering cancer patient, to a grandmother, to a photographer, to a shop owner. (And yes, those are all different people.) Nobody has expressed an opinion on elogind, but plenty have expressed opinions on wanting to be able to choose "Shut Down" from Plasma's menu and have it work reliably. At the end of the day, Adélie has a service to people. In fact, we are a Public Benefit Corporation in the State of Oklahoma with a specific expressed purpose in our legal documents of enriching the lives of people who rely on technology by providing them a free (as in beer, and as in libre) operating environment that is reliable, secure, and stable. That overrules politics every time, even when I don't like it. And I don't like elogind. But I like it better than the alternatives. > It is not that I am leaving, it is more that I can not promote Adelie > as much as I did. I like Kiss (k1ss.org) and ataraxia projects as > well but Adelie had more intersection between what I at least wanted > and expected. Ataraxia switched to elogind in April. This was part of what informed our decision to really give up on CK2; even the staunchest distributions can't keep that pile of poop running any more. Which is sad, but nobody wants to touch the CK2 code. I gave it a good look and it is possibly worse than elogind inside. Someone on our IRC said that there isn't much difference anyway, since CK2 and elogind implement mostly the same APIs (CK2 is also D-Bus and coined the 'login1' name) and are both freedesktop.org projects. > I have barely gotten up by being slapped by Void's move to elogind, > and now I get hit again :) Just when I had gotten s6 and 66 working > on both and keeping up with development, now I have to go try to > remove busybox from K1ss and try my luck there. They have their own issues. No NLS support, so English only, because they won't consider gettext-tiny as a replacement for gettext. Their choice of default media player has an erratic upstream that has been removing and changing code without explanation. etc etc. But I will admit their system is very flexible, and they have a good alternatives system. We need to work our own alternatives system out. > At least you haven't adopted .zstd compression, so there are still > some score points for Adelie. I don't see us putting anything from FB in core, similar to how we won't ship googleware, though for different reasons. (FB has a track record of less than great security; googleware is just written poorly, not portable, and gross.) Best, --arw -- A. Wilcox (awilfox) Project Lead, Adélie Linux https://www.adelielinux.org
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