>From my point of view, all the problems I had were related to Tivoli clients
being upgrade and none of the Netware servers were.
In two such cases, the problems were fixed with a new TSA agent from Novell.
But....On servers where the clients were not upgraded (Tivoli), I had
absolutely no such issues with TSA, not with files being unable to be backed
up, or with restores. When I took the clients back to the previous version
on the problem servers, and backreved the TSA to the origionals, I had no
problems yet again.
So I see your point, but I also see errors being generated by client
upgrades and not Novell upgrades.
I know about the 6 month issue where both worked together to get things
fixed, but this was after Tivoli upgraded clients, or a newer version of TSM
was used. Older versions still worked, and had I stayed at ADSM, I wouldn't
have any need to upgrade any TSA agents at all.
I am not putting all the blame on Tivoli, and as I said I use it and in
general am satisfied with it.
The reason I made my previous points was because I do not yet see TSM as the
wonderous product it was and still is made out to be.
As I said, I use Veritas and am very happy with it in it's present form,
which is not compatible with my and our future growth needs....and TSM is,
and so I go with that.
With all backup software there are problems, and as in all cases it still
depends on the support and installation of both the server and clients
correctly to get things running at the optimum, as well as with full vendor
support from both sides for problems such as these.
But I still say that the issues with the TSA modules (which by the way work
with Veritas, Arcserve, and others quite fine) have to do with Tivoli.
Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Remeta, Mark [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: ä îøõ 29 2001 17:21
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Comparison of Backup Products
>
> Mike, how can you say it's a Tivoli issue?? I don't understand. I
> personally
> was involved with a NDS backup issue that took over 6 months of Tivoli and
> Novell "working together" that resulted in Novell sending us a custom
> TSA.NLM that worked. Tivoli is just issuing Novell API calls, they didn't
> write the OS, only the backup software.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Glassman - Admin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 12:48 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Comparison of Backup Products
>
>
> Mark,
>
> I would say not actually.
>
> The fact that the problems centralized around the TSA modules in many
> cases,
> was based on the fact that TSM/ADSM versions changed, not the TSA modules.
> In every case, Netware was the one to bring out a new TSA module
> (including
> some that weren't in SP's) in order to fix TSM/ADSM created problems. I
> personaly had this issue with 2 seperate client upgrades from IBM,
> upgrades
> which happened in a "same environment" Netware environment. Meaning that
> there were absolutely no changes to the Netware systems, but there were
> changes to the clients.
>
> As well, TSM over Netware is one of the few still existing backup programs
> which utilizes a non-GUI client on Netware servers (and please don't
> someone
> come up and tell me that the web interface is GUI). And does not support
> multi languages on Netware systems (lets see you try backup Hebrew,
> Arabic,
> French off of a Netware file system and then restore it - if you can even
> work out which file is which...).
>
> I use TSM and Veritas here, and I have had 20 times the amount of problems
> with TSM/ADSM then with Veritas. In fact, I have never had a problem with
> Veritas that I have not solved in less then 24 hours.
>
> And yes, I have supposedly excellent support for TSM/ADSM directly from
> both
> IBM here in Israel, and a gold retailer who is here once a week at least.
>
> TSM is a wonderfull product, and I am hoping that once all the quirks are
> ironed out, it will actually perform to standard, but after having had so
> many problems with it in the past, I think it's fair to say that TSM/ADSM
> is
> like everyone else in this market. If you have the right support, your ok
> (eventually), if you don't, your in bad waters.
>
> The fact of the matter is that I go TSM because it will (or is supposed)
> to
> give me what I want, a fast easy to use, centralized backup point for all
> my
> servers, no matter what the OS (almost), which it does. But I sure as hell
> don't bow down to it and kiss whomever made it.
>
> Mike
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Remeta, Mark [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: ã îøõ 28 2001 17:57
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Comparison of Backup Products
> >
> > It's been my experience that most of the problems Tivoli products have
> > running on NetWare are actually Novell problems.
> > Just my .02.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tim Melly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:47 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Comparison of Backup Products
> >
> >
> > David,
> >
> > Thanks for the insight.
> >
> > I too believe that *SM is the best "enterprise class" backup product
> > currently
> > available. The biggest issue we're having is with the Novell client, the
> > 3.7
> > version memory leak caused the Novell servers to crash, did not restore
> > with
> > the
> > proper rights,
> > the 4.1 version scheduler doesn't work. Unfortunately, Novell is where
> we
> > do
> > most of our restores so the problem is magnified.
> >
> > My management has requested information on the advantages/disadvantages
> of
> > the
> > available backup solutions and I appreciate the non-sales centric
> > feedback.
> >
> > Regards, Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "David M.
> > Hendrix" To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <dmhendri@FED cc:
> > EX.COM> Subject: Re: Comparison of
> > Backup Products
> > Sent by:
> > "ADSM: Dist
> > Stor Manager"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > RIST.EDU>
> >
> >
> > 03/28/2001
> > 10:19 AM
> > Please
> > respond to
> > "ADSM: Dist
> > Stor Manager"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tim,
> >
> > We've been through a few iterations of evaluations of these products.
> We
> > recently added Netbackup along with TSM as our supported software
> > platforms. We run on HP, Sun, Win2K and IBM platforms, use EMC and HDS
> > disk arrays, EMC switches (okay - McData) and use 3590B/E, 9480 and LTO
> > devices (and hopefully a Gator 64K soon).
> >
> > Here is my take: they are both good products and we have a guidline
> design
> > document for deployment and implementation for each product paired with
> > whatever software. However, we have discovered that from an enterprise
> > class deployment, TSM is clearly the winner. Implementing failover
> > servers, messaging (integration into our ops VPO screens), and support
> are
> > the key issues we have run up against. We have also implemented the
> > Veritas HSM product for our imaging process. We were very disappointed
> > that the product is not well integrated with Netbackup (it uses media
> > manager but things like the vault product and failover do not work with
> > the
> > HSM product - TSM HSM would have been a much better choice but I was
> > overridden).
> >
> > Veritas is a solid product and we are having teething pains. The cure
> > always seems to be "Veritas Consulting Services". These aren't cheap.
> > There are third party companies that can help you as well and can
> > sometimes
> > provide more functionality than what Veritas would implement (I know one
> > company that does Vault - their own - plus production SOP work ups).
> >
> > Quality of code is probably not an issue you'd like to switch to Veritas
> > on. We have 21 TSM servers in production and all of our clients are
> tier
> > 2
> > or 3 servers. Considering the amount of data we push each day it's
> pretty
> > reliable. Our tape drives have 50 times the # of problems as any code
> we
> > run. And so, the grass is not greener on the Veritas side - it's the
> same
> > shade of brown.
> >
> > David Hendrix
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tim Melly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>@VM.MARIST.EDU> on 03/28/2001 07:13:45
> AM
> >
> > Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > cc:
> >
> > Subject: Comparison of Backup Products
> >
> >
> > To All,
> >
> > Due to the poor quality *SM code Tivoli has been releasing, and the
> > resultant
> > fallout at my site, I've been asked to investigate other backups
> > solutions.
> > I'm
> > familiar with Veritas NetBackup but have not worked with any other
> backup
> > products. Does anyone have any experiences / information on non-*SM
> > products
> > that they can share.
> >
> > Thx, Tim Melly
> > Bayer Corp.
