When I said two separate faucets, I had in mind two separate locations, say, one in a bathroom sink and another in a kitchen sink. But I do recall being in a NYC apartment where the bathroom sink was a bathtub which also servedf as the kitchen sink! The whole apartment was smaller than my kitchen. Re the hot/cold molecules, I'll take your word for it only because I don't want to research the matter. In my faucets the hot and the cold water arrive at the same moment since the building I live in has a boiler type and pump system meaning.... let's forget this frivolous path.
Now, in order to answer your question re the brain stuff I'll need to do a bunch of homework, searching through my bookshelf of relevant books, and during the Holiday too! What a drag. It's probably there but since my memory tends to condense what I read into serviceable themes and summaries, I'll need to re-read some books, just for you who could easily do the reading yourself! This kind of homework drives me nutty, especially since I'm a very busy fellow and I don't like to retrace my mental footsteps. I'll do the damned homework, Cheerskep, but what's stopping you from - proving - me wrong instead of just implying or claiming I'm wrong in my memory of what I've read several years ago? WC --- On Thu, 12/25/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: sense of pulchritude and intellectual engagement > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, December 25, 2008, 8:42 PM > In a message dated 12/25/08 8:48:25 PM, > [email protected] writes: > > > If you turn on two separate faucets in your home, > water will stream from > > both simultaneously although there's only one > ultimate water pipe coming > into > > the home. Neuronal firing can occur in many places at > the same time > although > > the sensory input is single. And awareness is > constructed from the neuronal > > activity. > > > I don't think the analogy works. This is just a guess, > but I'd bet money on > it: The molecules of water that are right next to each > other in the > originating > water pipe until they are divided into those for cold water > and those for hot > do not arrive in your sink simultaneously. The ones that > have to be heated > will take longer. > > The "one ultimate water pipe coming into" your > brain -- in the case of a car > bearing down on you -- begins with a retinal impression. > Granted, the layman > tends to think the nerve impulses from the retina go solely > and directly to > the > occipital area of the brain where "vision" is > processed, but your report of > people who are "blind" because the pertinent > occipital area is inactive but > who > nevertheless can be frightened when confronted by a hostile > face is > interesting. Nevertheless I maintain the logic behind my > doubt persists: Why > would one > experience fright when confronted by an approaching car or > a hostile face if > they have not already "registered" and > "recognized" in some subconscious > chamber the car or the face? What were they frightened > OF? > > Perhaps a distinction should be made between what I'll > dubiously call a > primary and secondary "emotion". Possibly the > "taste" of vanilla and the > dislike of > the taste could arrive simultaneously. (After all, pain > from flame and > awareness that that's flame can be simultaneous.) Those > would be "primary" > emotions. > > I'll term "secondary" emotions those that > arise from what (for temporary > communicative convenience) I'll call the > "meaning" of the awareness. The > approaching car does not cause pain, but, once we recognize > it's a car > approaching, we > know it "means" pain to come if we don't > move. We cannot experience a > secondary emotion without a prior "recognition". > > Meantime I'm still interested in the central question > put to you last time: " > Have you read of > > convincing > > neurological > > research that the realization and the fright are > > unquestionably simultaneous > > -- as distinguished from simply being separated by > such a > > tiny time-interval > > that current machinery can't discern it?" > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 12/25/08, [email protected] > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > > Subject: Re: sense of pulchritude and > intellectual engagement > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Thursday, December 25, 2008, 3:30 PM > > > In a message dated 12/24/08 12:08:52 PM, > > > [email protected] writes: > > > > > > > > > > I don't think we can talk anymore of > sequential > > > process in consciousness, > > > > cognition, etc. We may invent a sequence to > sort out > > > something complex but > > > > our brains are operating on multiple > neuron-firing > > > sequences simultaneously. > > > So > > > > in the end to say we respond emotionally > first or last > > > is meaningless > > > > (except maybe in subconscious brain stem > activity. > > > > > > > This is interesting. Say I turn my head just to > check the > > > traffic at the very > > > moment a car is rushing toward me. I would have > thought > > > that what would > > > follow would be, first, realization of what was > happening, > > > and only then > > > fright. > > > The "realization" need not be > > > "conscious". > > > > > > (I'm open to the idea that the subconscious > does lots > > > of processing and > > > "thought" before the thought becomes > conscious. > > > It seems obvious to me that > > > that's > > > what's happening when I try to remember, say, > a movie > > > actor's name: I'm > > > sitting there mumbling, what the hell's his > name, and > > > suddenly -- pop! there > > > it is > > > in my larynx, or in a visualization of the > letters of his > > > name.) > > > > > > What isn't clear to me how/why my > subconscious > > > could/would be frightened > > > until after it had processed the threat. Have you > read of > > > convincing > > > neurological > > > research that the realization and the fright are > > > unquestionably simultaneous > > > -- as distinguished from simply being separated > by such a > > > tiny time-interval > > > that current machinery can't discern it? When > I put > > > some requests to Google > > > the response seems "instantaneous", but
