"A few others here, such as Mando and Boris, follow the same formula for credibility. They make aphoristic assertions. There's no logic, no argument, no evidence, no persuasion. "
Throwing three of us in the same basket lacks credibility and logic plus misinterpretation of everything I wrote. Boris Shoshensky To: [email protected] Subject: Re: If I say a thing is beautiful, how can I convince you that certain p roperties of that thing are in fact beautiful? Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:54:42 -0800 (PST) What Miller now calls aesthetics is nothing but unexamined personal opinion. If the question of aesthetics is simply reduced to unexamined and therefore unarguable solipsistic opinions, then why even discuss the subject or even mention it at all? When something is so personal, so subjective, as to vanish as a topic of inquiry even as it's mentioned, then it really doesn't exist as something that can be discussed. But Miller goes even further to equate this unexamined personal solipsism as the only identifier of art (as opposed to his use of the term "fashion"), which, if we dare to apply logic, requires us to admit that art cannot be mentioned, let alone identified independently of the solipsist. The alternative to this dead-end sort of thinking is to argue that there is some sharable, something public, about both aesthetics and art. So what is that? One position is that the sharable elements are in the art object or contained by a definition of aesthetic experience. Another is that the sharable element is in some cultural experience termed aesthetic; and the third position argues for an organic relationship between the elements in the art object and the cultural experience of it. Miller's position is outside of any arena of discussion because its authenticity requires absolute isolation, absolute solipsism. But this is his position on many issues. He's quite content to defend it by simply demanding that he is right. A few others here, such as Mando and Boris, follow the same formula for credibility. They make aphoristic assertions. There's no logic, no argument, no evidence, no persuasion. In logic it's called the Appeal to Authority. It has its self-serving place, I suppose, in some fundamentalist religions, totalitarian regimes, slavery, prisons, advertising, but the whole tradition of intellectual civilization, it has no place. wc ----- Original Message ---- From: Chris Miller <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 7:58:35 AM Subject: If I say a thing is beautiful, how can I convince you that certain p roperties of that thing are in fact beautiful? But is this question really "a problem in aesthetics" (as Kate asserted yesterday) any more than "intelligent design" is a problem in biology? Biologists are never going to convince creationists about the validity of evolution, and they don't need to. And creationists don't need to concern themselves with biology. Their concerns belong in a church, not a research facility. Just as those who dispute the physical basis of beauty should be studying history or psychology or sociology or cognitive science instead of aesthetics. In Chapter 2 of "The Art Instinct" Dutton retraced the history of aesthetics from Aristotle to Kant, demonstrating that they all recognized the existence of the beautiful object or well-written tragedy, and that recognition continued into the 20th C. up until post-modernism, where objects no longer have qualities, they only have interpretations. But even our resident post-modernists believe that Mando is simply wrong when he denies the aesthetic quality of Manet's last painting. As you might recall, Wiliam's first reaction to Mando's apostasy was to suggest that after Mando had read the relevant literature (i.e. the interpretations) he would doubtless change his mind. But eventually, when it became clear that regardless of interpretations, Mando simply felt "Manet had lost it" , William could only deride Mando's response as "truly funny". So I have no doubt that aesthetics will survive post-modernist skepticism, even as it survived the extreme doctrines of formalism. It will just take people who are more interested in art than in following intellectual fashion. ____________________________________________________________ Weight Loss Program Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/c?cp=ynk7g1GrsKA4oElOtYoKLAAAJz6c l_zTaptgNR5c8Mer1v9kAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA=
