I had a cousin who was in junior collage when i was in high school in the late
40's,
always trying to teach me what the essence of things meant.which was
difficult to
understand for a while, then later in art school I had a 
sculpture teacher who stressed
the learning of anatomy of the human body and
every thing under the Sun. but always
used to warn us not to become a slaves
to them. "Design with it' were his constant words.
He felt he had learned that
too late in his life and founded it  impossible to change.

So I do agree that
art taught by a philosopher / poet / critic / historian or even a music 
composer would add much to the quality of every artist.

AB
________________________________
 From: William Conger
<[email protected]>
To: [email protected] 
Sent: Tuesday,
March 20, 2012 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: experience and resonance
 
I reject the
idea that one has to be a painter to critique or fully experience 
and
'understand' a painting.  First, every artist differs from all others.
Whenever one painter looks at another's painting (or even his or her own
painting), the work is experienced from a critical distance, from the neutral
corner, as it were. I've seen thousands and thousands of paintings and never
felt that I had a better sense of their expressive quality simply because I am
a 
painter.  That does bring up the difficult question about who should teach
painting.  For the technical process, yes, a painter might be best.  But for
the 
real task of educating a painter as an artist, I'm not sure if a
philosopher, 
poet, critic, scientist or historian might not be better. (I
withhold admitting 
social scientists because of a personal and likely wrong
bias). 

I agree that it's not necessary to know much about the artist in
experiencing 
work.  Such information may be helpful in dealing with many
aspects of the 
artist's life and art history but are not integral to the
artness of the work, 
the so-called a.e. (And that's why art history is not
about aesthetics or the 
a.e.) The works contains nothing at all except its
features just as a that a 
word contains no meaning in itself. The painting
becomes the container that is 
filled up with the beholder's own sensations
and narratives, the meaningful 
contexts one brings to it. I say that even
though I have worked closely with art 
historians who take the
psycho-biographical approach (M. Gedo, etc.) in a 
critique of art.
wc


-----
Original Message ----
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Sent: Tue, March 20, 2012 8:47:31 AM
Subject: Re:
experience and resonance

Two thoughts on John's interesting posting below.
1) I wonder (and that's all: I can't "know") if an experienced observer,
using
ostensible evidence in a work, can't imagine a unveracious history. "I
could
tell at once this was by an older artist.") I once encountered a book
of
"life" drawings by Picasso. It was accompanied by a scholar's judgment
that
when Picasso did these drawings he was "the best draughtsman alive". The
scholar remarked on the "relaxed maturity" of the works. In fact the drawings
were from the 1890s, when Picasso was still in his teens.   (It
felt distantly
comparable to chess experts' responses to the early games of
Bobby
Fischer.
That he could produce games of such "maturity" at such a young age
seemed
almost inconceivable.)

2) When John says, "So that raises the question: do
you HAVE to be a
painter in order to appreciate works like this? I say no, but
you do have to
be
experienced as a critic..." I realize how different the
notion John has in
mind when he uses the word 'appreciate' probably is from my
notion. Language
constantly wields its influence on our notions. I mentioned
how language,
because "words" and phrases are discrete and stable, tend to
make us discrete
and stabilize (and reify) what the words are thought to
"refer to". We also
are slow to realize that OUR notion is never "THE" notion.
Writers -- young
and old -- seem blithe to me when they are obviously assuming
that, as they
use a word, everyone who reads it will be entertaining the same
notion as the
writers do. A while back I listed several dozen words in
philosophy-of-language discussion that occasion a blizzard of varying notions
that many of
those philosophers seem unaware of. (This assertion of mine goes
back to my
position that no words "have a meaning". They occasion notions in
the
auditors'
minds, and we might agree to call those notions "the meanings
FOR THEM", but
they are never "THE" "meaning", because there is no such
entity.)

I might   -- and do -- say I can "appreciate" certain verbal works
while
having no info whatever about the author. But clearly I have a different
idea
of appreciation from John's. (I once had a friend who told of using
'appreciate' in a telling way. A third party had used several of my friend's
sentences in a piece the third party was writing. When the unattributed
borrowing
came to light, the third party said, "I hope you appreciate what I
was
doing -- paying homage to you that way." My friend responded, "Oh, don't
worry,
I APPRECIATED what you were doing all right.")


In a message dated
3/20/12 2:19:10 AM, [email protected] writes:


> William's referring to
his professional career in his reply to my
> regrettable post reminded me of
something that's been occupying me
> lately. I'll introduce it Joseph Berg
style by quoting this exchange
> between the painters Joe Fyfe (b. 1952) and
Josh Blackwell (b. 1972):
>
> JB: "[Your works] are quite elegant in the
economy of the
> picture-making itself. Because of that, there might be a
perception
> that they dont feel finished because they dont feel as if they
were
> hard-won."
>
> JF: "[T]heres a big difference between my paintings and
those by
> artists 20 or 25 years younger. Ive spent 20 years or so making all
> kinds of paintings. I was a figurative painter. I labored over
> paintings
for months on end (...) These are elegant paintings that
> seem facile, but
they arent if you know how to look at a painting.
> Any number of younger

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