None that I know of; direct bury is the "just make it work, for cheap" using-indoor-cat5e-outdoors of the fiber world.
On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:34 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > oh. I cant see that if we ever did this type of fiber we would direct > bury. aside from cost is there any reason one wouldnt duct? > > On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 10:24 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> I like 100’ in each handhole. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 24, 2018, at 9:10 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Dec 24, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> 300k was a quote at one point. Weve got a little under half that in >> microwave solutions spread over the years and we are coming up on >> consistent 1/3 capacity with spikes over half, so we will outgrow that >> investment again in a relatively short period. >> >> >> 30k / mile is pretty typical. >> >> >> "You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. If >> doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility." >> >> >> I assume these figure8 are slack and in handhole/vaults? so in rural >> areas, at least 1 per mile since theres a road every mile? >> >> >> >> Nope. The figure-8 is how you have to handle the cable when installing >> it if you don’t have duct. When direct burying the cable you have to >> take the spool with you as you go since you can’t pull cable once it’s >> buried. Every time you need to pass under an obstacle you either have to >> cut the fiber and splice it back together or pull the entire remainder of >> the cable off the real, store it temporarily, shove the end under the >> obstacle and then reel up all the cable again. It’s a seriously labor >> intensive process and you risk damaging the cable every time you do it. >> >> >> Whats the rule of thumb on slack? is there a percentage? like say for >> every 1000 feet you have x feet of slack? I aasume when an auger hits the >> duct it will pull alot of that slack? >> >> >> 10% >> >> Mark >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:04 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >> >>> Duct can be had for 35 cents / foot or less. I was getting it for 28 >>> cents until the extrusion company went BK. >>> >>> You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. If >>> doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility. >>> >>> You can blow another fiber over the top of an existing fiber. >>> >>> Fewer fiber cuts and splices etc. In my opinion you don’t save that >>> much money with direct burial. >>> >>> *From:* Chris Fabien >>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 10:53 AM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>> >>> I know we've had this discussion before.... we don't have gophers in >>> Michigan. Only damage we have had on direct bury was due to gas company. >>> Yeah it was a pain to fix, about 8 hours of downtime. But the cost savings >>> is worth it to me for my network. We are doing FTTH so we do have more >>> handholes for test points. Usually at least 6 per mile. Don't know where >>> Steve is or how well funded so just sharing a lower cost option, I guess. >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:15 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>> >>>> The worst part of direct burial is gopher damage. And they will eat it >>>> up on 100 places but they may not fail until there is some nearby >>>> vibration. They seem to have the ability to eat up the cable but leave the >>>> strands intact or just break one or two of them. >>>> >>>> Yes, you first have to find the damage and in long rural stretches that >>>> can be difficult, more so with direct because you have to dig, cut, test, >>>> dig cut test. With duct you just pull on it and see if it moves. OTDRs >>>> are not precision measuring devices. Even if they are +-1% accurate, that >>>> is 52 feet of uncertainty in a mile. So you shoot both ends and then >>>> extrapolate the center of overlap or gap. >>>> >>>> Pray, dig, cut, test, splice, pray, dig, cuts, test, splice. Repeat >>>> until you get there. After some time you will have it bracketed and many >>>> times you just replace 1000’ instead of actually finding and fixing the >>>> problem. >>>> >>>> All the while customers are very unhappy. I have had it take a week to >>>> fix very long remote troubles like this. >>>> >>>> *From:* Colin Stanners >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:56 AM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>> >>>> We also usually install a second duct on all major routes. >>>> >>>> Chuck, with your long career, I assume that you've had a few cases >>>> where direct burial took a long time/difficulties to fix? >>>> >>>> Now working in the long-distance/underground industry, doing all the >>>> planning and permitting, I've seen our guys pull up things - including a >>>> boulder the size of a car - from the ground so that they could get that >>>> conduit through. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 10:48 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I never do direct burial any more. Not even on drops. Generally I >>>>> install an extra duct, I like duralines future path products if I can >>>>> justify the expense. I need to learn how to install microduct into >>>>> regular >>>>> duct. I am sure I can pull it but I would like to figure out how to blow >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Colin Stanners >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:42 AM >>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>> >>>>> I try hard to steer clear of direct-burying cable, which is much >>>>> easier to damage and extremely time-consuming to repair, unless it's a >>>>> non-crucial line (e.g. standard residential customer, although those we >>>>> currently put in conduit as well, to keep future risk and repair costs >>>>> low). >>>>> >>>>> If this customer is paying 1/4 million to get a line installed, it's >>>>> probably crucial. One day when that line gets hit, if it's in conduit it's >>>>> likely possible to get it repaired within hours to a day. I've even heard >>>>> of cases of the fiber surviving a conduit-line hit since it's "loose" >>>>> inside the conduit and has slack at the ends. If a direct-buried line gets >>>>> hit, especially next to a road etc, it may be needed to get locates, >>>>> arrange a drill, electrical/gas line safety watch, etc, possibly even >>>>> arrange more permitting for a new vault, which will often move time to >>>>> repair to days or a week+. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 9:28 AM Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Steve in our area we could do that "on the cheap" with 12 or 24 count >>>>>> cable direct buried for around 100k. There are so many variables though. >>>>>> You really need someone who has done work in that area and is familiar >>>>>> with >>>>>> permitting costs and requirements. I'd it's so rural that you can plow >>>>>> the >>>>>> bulk of it and you are OK with direct bury you can save a ton of money vs >>>>>> putting it all in duct. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally I run at least 24 strands on any run that's going >>>>>> "somewhere". Dead end runs can be 12F. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 1:46 AM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If a guy wanted to get fiber in the ground, non aerial between two >>>>>>> buildings to replace an existing licensed 1.3 gb link. Crosses 3 >>>>>>> creek/ditches, 10 rural intersections, 10 rural town blocks. What would >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> needed? >>>>>>> I would guess that duct is the best thing to put it in, innerduct >>>>>>> being better. >>>>>>> I'd guess 96+ count isn't going to cost any more per strand to put >>>>>>> in the duct than 2 (not the cost of the fiber itself) >>>>>>> Lots of dark strands and duct space is probably lucrative to have >>>>>>> just in case. >>>>>>> Slack, handholes, vaults, etc, what would you put in there? 10 or so >>>>>>> customers on the path so not a ftth type thing. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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