Yeah, Baicells CPE report signal in RSRP, rather than RSSI like most of
the radios WISPs are used to, and I think that's pretty much standard
for LTE radios, in general.
You can get away with low signal levels when there's no noise and no
load on the AP, so it seems great when you put your first few customers
on it... once you have 20 customers with lousy signals on an AP and a
few competitors using the band, then it's suddenly not so great anymore.
I don't know how many times I've seen somebody put up a new LTE eNB and
post something like "getting 80 meg through 4 miles of trees!!!"
...yeah, but wait until a few people are actually using it.
On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:43 AM Brian Webster <i...@wirelessmapping.com
<mailto:i...@wirelessmapping.com>> wrote:
A lot of the initial hype was based on the signal levels the links
were reporting from the CPE. What people didn’t realize was that the
signal being reported was for the pilot carrier and not the full
bandwidth signal. The difference is about 30 dB. So when a CPE was
connecting at say -70 the reporting device was saying about -100. A
lot of operators got excited thinking they could install customers
down to -100 rather than -70 because they were getting great speed
tests at the reported signal level. That is where everyone thought
the NLOS for LTE was going to be better than what they have been
using. Then reality set in about that 30 dB difference and as such
the NLOS improvement hoped for was not as significant as first
thought. As I recall the Baicells devices had that difference, not
sure if all LTE CPE had the same issue.____
__ __
Thank you,____
Brian Webster____
www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>____
__ __
*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Thursday, February 27, 2020 12:29 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE____
__ __
Lots of wishful thinking combined with a little bit of LTE magic. 5
on your list would be my vote - receiver sensitivity and lack of
interference.____
__ __
You left out the other adder - running at illegal power output
levels at the base station for the NN licenses.____
__ __
LTE certainly has significantly better receiver sensitivity than our
normal solutions - but it comes at a pretty high cost in
throughput. So yeah, you can run NLOS in 3.65 and it works as
long as the noise floor stays low and you don’t care much about the
overall capacity of the base station.____
__ __
Under CBRS running at even higher power levels makes it push through
into NLOS a bit more, but the noise floor overall is also going to
come up so it may be something of a wash in the end.____
__ __
Mark____
__ __
On Feb 27, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:____
__ __
For years there has been enthusiasm for the idea that 3.5 GHz is
suitable for NLOS propagation in a way that doesn’t apply to
other mid band spectrum like 2.4, 2.5 or 5 GHz. Initially is
wasn’t clear what type of NLOS people meant – urban clutter or
foliage – but I think it’s pretty clear people are talking about
foliage.____
____
Why do people expect this? Is it the frequency, or the protocol
like WiMAX and now LTE? Or no theoretical basis, just it works
don’t ask why?____
____
I can think of several possible explanations, not sure if any of
these are why people associate 3.65 GHz LTE with NLOS.____
____
- 3.65 GHz somehow is absorbed less by foliage than other mid
band frequencies____
- some feature of the LTE protocol that overcomes NLOS____
- LTE equipment has more sensitive receivers____
- 3.65 GHz has less interference due to being semi licensed____
- some combination of receiver sensitivity and lack of
interference____
- none of the above but LTE equipment is just made better____
____
Maybe it’s real world experience with no theoretical basis. But
I always like to know why something works, or doesn’t. You’d
prefer that the reason it works isn’t some temporary anomaly.
Like service is really good at this new restaurant, because
nobody knows about it yet.____
____
____
____
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Eric Muehleisen
*Sent:*Thursday, February 27, 2020 10:29 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE____
____
Still in winter. I'd like to see how it performs when the leaves
are full in May.____
____
On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:26 AM dave <dmilho...@wletc.com
<mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:____
We R starting to see some real world impressive results with
just the pmp450i CBRS radios on a 20Mhz channels
This guy is nearLOS about 2.5 miles of some tree and pointing
into edge of panel____
Current Results Status____
Stats for LUID: 65 Test Duration: 10 Pkt Length: 1714 Test
Direction Bi-Directional
*Link Test without Bridging*____
*Data
Channel
Priority*____
*Downlink*____
*Uplink*____
*Aggregate*____
*Packet Transmit*____
*Packet Receive*____
*Actual*____
*Actual*____
Low____
50.01 Mbps____
32.97 Mbps____
82.98 Mbps, 6008 pps____
23887 (2388 pps)____
36207 (3620 pps)____
*Efficiency*____
*Downlink*____
*Uplink*____
*Efficiency*____
*Fragments
count*____
*Efficiency*____
*Fragments
count*____
*Actual*____
*Missed*____
*Actual*____
*Missed*____
99%____
984301____
7409____
99%____
647582____
3593____
Link Test ran on 15:20:50 02/27/2020 UTC
*Currently transmitting at:*____
8X/6X MIMO-B____
Current Contention Mode Status: No Piggyback of data in
contention____
<image001.jpg>____
On 2/25/20 3:59 PM, Matt Mangriotis via AF wrote:____
I completely understand your skepticism Ken. However,
Cambium did design the 3 GHz 450m with every intention of
being able to support a transition to LTE (specifically, as
a RRH with cnRanger). The intent is for this device to be a
fully capable 8x8 MU-MIMO. Yes, you’ve got that right
though, you’ll need new CPE devices and a BBU for each
sector.____
____
We don’t have a target date when this will be developed yet…
right now, we’re focused on getting the cnRanger CBRS 2x2
RRH and High Gain Cat 6 CPE devices out in August!____
____
With respect to NLOS coverage, I will agree that 450 is not
quite on par with some of the things that LTE brings to the
table (regarding range and the ability to maintain the
downlink). However, with the increased power limits of CBRS,
the 450m does an admirable job. In fact, in comparing
equipment cost and performance, I would suggest that the 450
platform outperforms anything out there. That is, it’s less
expensive to get bandwidth where it needs to be (at a higher
rate, and to more customers). If the customer density can
support the cost of cnMedusa, you’re going to be better off
from total cost of ownership (both CapEx and OpEx)
perspective.____
____
The new 3GHz 450b High Gain has 29 dBm Tx Pwr, and a 20 dBi
dish integrated antenna… this is pretty impressive for CBRS
CPE equipment (most of the high gain/high power LTE stuff I
see is only going to be 23 dBm Tx, plus 15 dBi antenna).____
____
There are several customers out there that have done these
comparisons… hopefully, they can chime in.____
____
Matt____
____
*From:*AF<af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>*On Behalf Of*Ken Hohhof
*Sent:*Monday, February 24, 2020 7:06 PM
*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'<af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:*[ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE____
____
You should probably talk to someone at Cambium, unless
someone here has already done that. There was talk 1-2
years ago about 450m is software defined so maybe they could
use it as a remote radio head with their cnRanger LTE
BaseBand Unit (BBU). It has been pretty quiet since then,
but I haven’t been able to make it to the shows.____
____
Without an update directly from the horse’s mouth like Matt
at Cambium, or some kind of announcement, I wouldn’t hold my
breath. Back in 2018 it was in the realm of “it would be
nice”. That’s pretty tentative. Plus you’d still have to
buy the BBU and new CPE, so it doesn’t sound like a huge
savings anyway, still 2/3 of a forklift upgrade. I mean, if
it turned out that the 3 GHz cnRanger RRH was literally a
450m, that would probably be the best case, but how likely
do you think that is?____
____
This is just my personal speculation, if it’s an important
part of a decision you’re making now, you probably need to
get hold of your Cambium regional sales manager, or the 450
or cnRanger product manager. If you’re going to
WISPAmerica, you can probably do it there.____
____
____
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Jason McKemie
*Sent:*Monday, February 24, 2020 6:03 PM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE____
____
So the 450M is supposed to be LTE upgradable?____
____
On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 3:45 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:____
Something aboit the medusa top can be used with cnranger
potentially with a fiber run and a software update____
____
On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 3:38 PM Adam Moffett
<dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
wrote:____
In my opinion, 450 is better than Baicells or Telrad
LTE at everything except NLOS performance. ____
....Except that NLOS performance is so useful that
one can be tempted to ignore all of the other
features of the 450. I do understand that tradeoff
because I've had to make it myself.____
____
On 2/24/2020 4:30 PM, David Williamson wrote:____
450 3.65Ghz vs. Baicells 3.65Ghz LTE = no
comparison. All but one of the 450 APs are
already removed from our network. I am just
trying to determine if the SMs will be usable on
Cambium LTE once they roll it out, or if it will
require a completely different SM.____
David____
____
*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]*On
Behalf Of*Jason McKemie
*Sent:*Monday, February 24, 2020 4:28 PM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE____
____
Why are you getting rid of 3.65 Cambium in favor
of LTE?
On Monday, February 24, 2020, David Williamson
<dwilliam...@customcomputersva.com
<mailto:dwilliam...@customcomputersva.com>>
wrote:____
Will the Cambium 3.65 LTE have a completely new
SM or will it use the existing 450SM's? Trying
to determine if I should keep our 450SM's or
just go ahead and sell them to one of our
secondary market distributors along with our 450
AP's.
Thanks!
David Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] On Behalf Of
Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 1:57 PM
To:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE
I think I heard next quarter for the 3.5.
On 2/24/2020 1:48 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
> 3.5 isn’t available yet.
>
> I believe that 2.5 can be purchased.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
>jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
<mailto:jbroadw...@cticonnect.com>
>
>> On Feb 24, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Avatar Davis
<acd...@mail.harvard.edu
<mailto:acd...@mail.harvard.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone have experience with Cambium LTE? I am
highly dissatisfied with my current manufacturer and was wondering if anyone had
experience using/demoing their product line. Cambium products seem consistently good
in my experience.
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>>AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
>>http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
<https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cb86add20912747adc42b08d7b98f079e%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637181896280372524&sdata=sDEJMwg%2FrUeE9YW6GqIDR1XzERRWkE%2F6XePPnWoPmRg%3D&reserved=0>
>
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
<https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cb86add20912747adc42b08d7b98f079e%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637181896280382518&sdata=pP5xMGSatWmczFjAPjC1wEXnNEcBOceklsDEIeHxs6c%3D&reserved=0>
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
<https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cb86add20912747adc42b08d7b98f079e%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637181896280382518&sdata=pP5xMGSatWmczFjAPjC1wEXnNEcBOceklsDEIeHxs6c%3D&reserved=0>____
____
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
<https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cb86add20912747adc42b08d7b98f079e%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637181896280392515&sdata=%2BbZTwYPdzPsYWDRGoWDCC16Kx5oRKh7VKuFLS8xZ%2Bek%3D&reserved=0>____
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
<https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faf.afmug.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Faf_af.afmug.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmatt.mangriotis%40cambiumnetworks.com%7Cb86add20912747adc42b08d7b98f079e%7C0e263e36340946228ac818d993e76eb6%7C0%7C0%7C637181896280392515&sdata=%2BbZTwYPdzPsYWDRGoWDCC16Kx5oRKh7VKuFLS8xZ%2Bek%3D&reserved=0>____
____
____
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com____
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com____
__ __
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
