Some do, some don't.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 3:21:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers
i dont deal with these, so I dont know, but do the charging stations have a
fee?
On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 3:16 PM Brian Webster < i...@wirelessmapping.com >
wrote:
And again doing any of this forces the purchase/replacement of the vehicles I
already own and have owned for 10 plus years that are paid for. I have examine
the idea of replacing a low gas mileage vehicle many times. The difference in
gas mileage is not enough even at today’s gas prices for me to justify going
out and spending 10, 20, 30 or in the case of a truck or SUV up to 80 grand for
the cost of that new vehicle. I can buy a lot of extra gas for 30 or 40 grand.
You people seem to think that driving an EV is free.
Again back to the debt thing, for those folks who just constantly live their
life always having some sort of car payment, migrating from ICE to EV seems
like an easy gradual transition. And in those cases it usually is, those same
people tend to drive those daily short trips that are well within the range
capacity of an EV.
Until the EV charging stations are everywhere, and the electric grid can
support them, I just cannot accept that restriction of the travel freedom. One
of the few freedoms we do still enjoy unencumbered in the US if the ability to
just get in your car and go wherever the road takes you and you can even put a
gas can or two in your car to extend that. I am also a person who works in
emergency management. I shudder at the thoughts of how much of a cluster f**K
an evacuation from an hurricane or flood prone area will be with all electric
cars and the number of people who haven’t charged their cars up enough to get
out of the evacuation zone. I am not a prepper but I do think about contingency
plans should something happen. The infrastructure for EV’s for charging and
such just does not seem to be enough yet. Of course that is a chicken and egg
problem to solve I know.
Wait until the government figures out how to get you to pay your highway tax
fees. Right now they have been doing it through the cost per gallon of fuel.
They obviously have to rethink that as more and more EV’s are put on the road.
Right now ICE vehicles are paying for it, that is unless you are the type that
actually claims all the miles driven on your tax forms at the end of the year
and you pay your share of the road taxes. You know like everyone does when they
claim items they buy outside their state on the internet and willingly send in
that sales tax money to their state and local governments.
Thank you,
Brian Webster
From: AF [mailto: af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 3:54 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers
I'm not. I can go 500 miles on a tank. There is a gas station at almost every
single exit. The last I looked, with Chargeway, the chargers are less often
than rest areas.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 3:52 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote:
<blockquote>
You plan your trips around gas stations, why not chargers?
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
From: "Josh Luthman" < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com >
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 2:49:51 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers
>plan your trip around chargers
This is straight awful IMO. I want to stop when I want to stop, not when I need
to stop.
You're absolutely forced to do lunch within a few steps of that charger. If you
don't mind fast food that's probably a moot point, but when I go to a different
area I absolutely do not want anything like that or anything I'm routinely
familiar with.
Different strokes, different folks. I looked at a Taycan and while it drives
amazing, the trunk is worse than the Panamera (seriously wtf) and the range
issue is a killer for me (being my daily).
On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 3:43 PM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote:
<blockquote>
If you're doing 300-500 miles in a day regularly, an EV probably isn't for you
at this point. 1-2 times a year, plan your trip around chargers and see the
sites that happen to be around those chargers, or rent a gas car.
But even now, I really don't think any of that would be a problem in, say, a
new Tesla Model S with 400 miles or range... Superchargers are everywhere, and
they really don't take that long. to go 500 miles in a day, you'd probably be
talking one 20 minute stop... that's basically lunch.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:33 PM Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com >
wrote:
<blockquote>
Sure, but let's say it's 1-2 times a year. What do you do if you want to make
that long trip?
I'm not saying you can't live with an EV, but doing 300-500 miles in a day is
certainly not uncommon (especially for me, I have the data to back that up). If
you only have an EV and you're limited on routes, you're in a bind.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 3:20 PM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote:
<blockquote>
The thing is, when you've been driving an EV for awhile, you realize that (at
least for most people) 200+ miles trips are such a small percentage of driving,
that never having to stop at a gas station the rest of the time is a much
bigger benefit.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:08 PM Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com >
wrote:
<blockquote>
Who wants to charge their car every 90 minutes for 10 minutes at a time? Time
to burn some dust, eat my rubber!
On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 2:48 PM Robert Andrews < i...@avantwireless.com >
wrote:
<blockquote>
If you are doing a 300 mile trip, your stop at a supercharger for a
Model Y would be about 10 minutes to add another 150 miles, so that's
not bad when you would be stopping at a gas station for 10 minutes as
well. ( I haven't ever gotten out and put even 10 gallons in in less
that 7 minutes with using the card and all that, you don't do any of
that at a supercharger ) As far as towing is going, I think you will
see more and more of the Electric Airstream campers coming down the road
that have electric assist, to remove the range losses. There are used
EV's on the market and the only reason the prices are high is because
the demand is there, the prices will drop as more used ones hit the
market, but they will come with reduced range, which is a loss and a
gain because the rest of the drivetrain will have a lot more use than a
60K+ ICE vehicle... So the only takeaway is that it's still a rapidly
evolving market, but the ICE builders already see the writing on the
wall.... New teslas come with integrated battery packs which I think is
going to be a problem in the future, but I am not going to be the one
dealing with that...
On 2/14/22 11:15, Brian Webster wrote:
> Living in rural America I am not a fan of the range limitations. For me it's
> not uncommon to have to take a trip 60 to 90 miles in one direction and then
> back in the same day. It's also not uncommon to want to take a trip and
> covers 300 or more miles in that day on the long trip. I do not want to be
> limited to 250 miles before I have to stop for an extended period to
> recharge. Personally that is a serious limit on my personal freedom of
> movement. For instance it's not uncommon for spring or winter breaks to drive
> from upstate NY to Florida in a single 24 hour period. When you only have a
> week for vacation tag team driving to get there with a carload of people is
> still cheaper than try to fly everyone. Also the restriction of being able to
> haul larger loads similarly are a big limitation. Having a 27 foot camper to
> load the family up and take a vacation is not possible with the current
> availability of EV's out there.
>
> Let's also consider the other elephant in the roof, the actual cost of the
> vehicles. New car prices are outrageous. Personally I like to buy used
> vehicles with higher mileage and typically pay less than 10 grand(usually a
> lot less) and pay cash for them. I haven't had a car payment in over 15 years
> and do not want to be forced in to having to do so. With getting closer to
> retirement age every year, I do not want to be forced in to incurring debt.
> For me the goal is to be debt free, not have to fork over 30 grand or more
> just to be able to continue to transport myself around. People making
> decisions like no more gas engines for lawn mowers and such, they tend to
> live in some sort of state of constant debt, if they are in government they
> have no concept of not being in debt. Most will think I am crazy for thinking
> this way because society just wants to accept that debt is a necessary way of
> life. That debt for purchasing and converting to EV's and getting away from
> fossil fuels is in my mind not being fairly considered in the process.
>
> Thank you,
> Brian Webster
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AF [mailto: af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 1:49 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers
>
> There are also a bunch of real life tests published on Youtube. Seems
> like everyone in the cold wanted to either brag or complain...
>
> On 2/14/22 09:56, li...@gogebicrange.net wrote:
>> Since a lot of you guys seem to have first hand experience with the EV’s
>> Ill ask. How do they do on range in cold environments? We have often
>> wondered how they heat the inside of the vehicle in -10F and how it
>> affects the range of the vehicle. Those temps are common for us in
>> January and February.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>> *From:* AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 11:15 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers
>>
>> It's not thye electric motors that are at fault. Once the battery tech
>> gets sorted out, there will be no good reason to use dino-fuel.
>>
>> bp
>>
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>> On 2/14/2022 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> Sure, but efficiency isn't everything. Fortunately, EVs are also
>> better at torque than diesel and gasoline.
>>
>> Where they don't shine is range when actually working.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions < http://www.ics-il.com/ >
>> < https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL ><
>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb ><
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions ><
>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL >
>> Midwest Internet Exchange < http://www.midwest-ix.com/ >
>> < https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix ><
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange ><
>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix >
>> The Brothers WISP < http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ >
>> < https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp >
>>
>>
>> < https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg >
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *"Bill Prince" < part15...@gmail.com > <mailto: part15...@gmail.com >
>> *To: * af@af.afmug.com <mailto: af@af.afmug.com >
>> *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 11:06:28 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers
>>
>> It's approximately 33 KWH of electricity is equivalent to 1 gallon
>> of gasoline (probably less for diesel), so EVs with 60-80 KWH
>> batteries are running a couple hundred miles (or more) on the rough
>> equivalent of < 3 gallons of gas.
>>
>> bp
>>
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>> On 2/14/2022 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> The funny thing is that while diesel has superior performance to
>> gasoline in many ways, EVs have superior performance to diesel
>> in many ways.
>>
>> Kinda ironic...
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions < http://www.ics-il.com/ >
>> < https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL ><
>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb ><
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions ><
>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL >
>> Midwest Internet Exchange < http://www.midwest-ix.com/ >
>> < https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix ><
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange ><
>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix >
>> The Brothers WISP < http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ >
>> < https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp >
>>
>>
>> < https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg >
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *"Bill Prince" < part15...@gmail.com >
>> <mailto: part15...@gmail.com >
>> *To: * af@af.afmug.com <mailto: af@af.afmug.com >
>> *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 9:46:36 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers
>>
>> It's called "rolling coal", and it is all the rage for people
>> who think EVs are the devil's spawn.
>>
>> bp
>>
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>> On 2/14/2022 6:38 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
>>
>> In the past year I've observed that agressive driving seems
>> to be the norm now. More assholes, especially pickups using
>> farm diesel (black-foul-smelling-smoke). I been thinking of
>> investing in a stash of bumper stickers to stick on their
>> trucks that says "shoot me please".
>>
>> On 2/13/22 12:28, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> Its possible that with the lower threshold more folks
>> were able to be arrested before they couldgo fora
>> croaker cruise.
>>
>> Its more probable though that ride sharing grew during
>> that period and the generation of party drinkers used it
>> more as a matter of trend.
>>
>> Drinking establishments being closed or otherwise
>> inaccessible due to the rona too probably playeda huge
>> role, like the seeming disappearance of flu.
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 13, 2022, 1:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF
>> < af@af.afmug.com <mailto: af@af.afmug.com >> wrote:
>>
>> During Covid, in Utah, there have been the highest
>> rate of deaths ever recorded due to car crashes.
>>
>> Meanwhile, at approximately the same time another
>> experiment was running.
>>
>> Late 2018 Utah lowered the blood alcohol level for
>> driving from .08 to .05%.
>>
>> Many, including myself, figured that there would not
>> be a significant difference.
>>
>> But I also commented at the time that this one will
>> be easy to prove or disprove.
>>
>> Deaths and crashes linked to drunken driving dropped
>> by 19.8% since the law took effect. I think one
>> could say that is statistically significant. Glad I
>> was wrong.
>>
>> --
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