The problem of course is that all problems are Internet problems. Until proven otherwise. Everything from the server to the eyeball is our problem, at least until we can point the finger elsewhere.
And in this case, since I am responsible for the Mikrotik, I want to make sure that a bridge ageing timeout of 5 minutes isn’t part of the problem, when clients can roam between bridge ports. That’s a good customer service-centric attitude. But don’t forget the bridge ageing timeout of 5 minutes works perfectly so long as the customer doesn’t screw it up with their four access points 25’ apart. You’re not fixing your problem now, you’re dancing around their mess. Chris Wright Network Administrator Velociter Wireless 209-838-1221 x115 From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 9:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2 wireless APs on bridged Mikrotik ports My takeway from this post is tell the customer to only join one network with each device, add more at their own peril. Thinking you can dictate to customers what they buy at Best Buy and install in their house is unrealistic. Unless you want to be the Seinfeld Soup Nazi. In this case, we followed our standard policy which is we only support routers you lease from us, which will be a managed Mikrotik. In this case the customer wanted 2 wireless access points in the house despite our advice that it was overkill, and wanted to own those not lease from us. So they bought from the store and were informed the demarc is the Mikrotik. The problem of course is that all problems are Internet problems. Until proven otherwise. Everything from the server to the eyeball is our problem, at least until we can point the finger elsewhere. And in this case, since I am responsible for the Mikrotik, I want to make sure that a bridge ageing timeout of 5 minutes isn’t part of the problem, when clients can roam between bridge ports. The last thing I want to do is install a Unifi system for this customer, then I would be complicit in his nightmare network and obliged to make it work. From: Eric Kuhnke<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 9:56 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2 wireless APs on bridged Mikrotik ports I don't understand why anyone would voluntarily take responsibility for managing netgear crap... If you're going to have a residential customer you can take two approaches: 1) "Here is the demarc. Plug you 100BaseTX or 1000BaseT thing in here and you will get a DHCP address. Your router and your home LAN is entirely your responsibility" or 2) Full managed network where you control the SOHO router. On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 7:22 AM, Jason Pond <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Ken, If you are going to manage the network then manage the whole network. As Steve said you do need to be using the right product. The problem is between the netgear devices and the Customer WiFi devices. Having them have ALL 4 SSID's in their device and it being able to see them all at the same time is causing the problem. We see this frequently from netgear dual band routers when the client connects to both 2G ang 5G networks. Unifi is one of the better solution that is affordable on the market today. I use it in my house (which does require 2 ap's for coverage) and it works great. I can stream music or watch video through the whole house and not miss a beat when my device switches AP's and it is all the same SSID so less confusion on the customer side of things. This problem is getting worse and worse with dual band routers and I see it a lot with Netgear products. Sincerely, Jason Pond On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: What we have here is a failure to communicate? I’m not understanding Josh’s suggestion, you mean do 4 SSIDs? Currently WAP1 has SSIDs Office and Office-5G. WAP2 has SSIDs TVRoom and TVRoom-5G. So there are already 4 SSIDs. But each WAP is fed from an Ethernet port on the Mikrotik. And when a wireless client moves between WAPs, it is moving between Mikrotik ports. I believe the 5 minute ageing time on the Mikrotik bridge means that MAC address persists on the original port for 5 minutes after it has appeared on another port. Maybe I’m wrong about this, but that’s what appears to be happening. The Bridge table shows the MAC address only on one port, but the traffic makes me believe it is actually being flooded to both ports. This doesn’t really seem right to me. On a switch, I would expect a MAC address to move pretty quickly to the new port, or if it isn’t in the table at all, to be flooded to all ports. And yes I don’t think the customer needs 2 WAPs to cover his house, but the customer is always right. And the Mikrotik is leased/managed, the Netgears he owns. But I get sucked into it because ... well, do I really have to explain? From: Paul McCall<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 8:37 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2 wireless APs on bridged Mikrotik ports +1 on Josh’s suggestions From: Af [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 9:27 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2 wireless APs on bridged Mikrotik ports Nope, you already have my suggestion. Can you try your idea of a 10s timeout? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340<tel:937-552-2340> Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:937-552-2343> 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Oct 22, 2015 12:28 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: There are 4 SSIDs. But customer has each device “join” each SSID. I expected the devices to pick one SSID and stay with it down to 1 bar, but they seem very fickle. Or are you saying make all the SSIDs the same? I don’t think it matters, there are 4 wireless networks, even if they are all named the same. From: Josh Luthman<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 11:03 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2 wireless APs on bridged Mikrotik ports Why not do 4 SSIDs? Add the profiles once and then done. I think your issue is probably the APs, not the bridge/switch part but it doesn't really help. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340<tel:937-552-2340> Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:937-552-2343> 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Oct 21, 2015 11:59 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I have a customer who insisted he needed 2 dual band wireless APs 25 feet apart in his ranch house. So we have a managed non-WiFi Mikrotik RB2011 in his basement, feeding two Netgear routers in wireless AP mode. I have the LAN ports bridged rather than using the switch chips, since there's plenty of CPU power and it gives more visibility into the traffic. So counting 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz, the customer has 4 SSIDs and I think his devices like iPads are jumping back and forth between networks. And I think bad things are happening because the bridging table can't keep track of which port the clients are on. I see weird things like the same amount of traffic going out the ports to both wireless APs. I never see a MAC address on both bridge ports, but it is acting like the Mikrotik is flooding traffic to both ports. Should I be tweaking parameters like reducing the ageing time below the default 5 minutes? Should I be using the switch chips and not bridging? Is this a typical problem when devices can choose between multiple APs close together on the same bridged LAN?
