To be fair, I can put something like 128x100Gbps full rate interfaces in an mx960, but I just can't afford a bucket big enough to hold all of the money I'd need to throw at juniper to afford the parts :) On Jan 15, 2016 9:02 AM, "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
> That was half of the reason you went with Mikrotik, ImageStream, etc. back > in the day was that the Ciscos just flat out couldn't do what they said > they could. Obviously, cost was the other half. Jeff can speak much better > to it than I can, but IIRC, Imagestream's big thing was that these various > popular Cisco models just couldn't live up to expectations and not only did > the Imagestream outperform them, but cost less as well. > > Josh Reynolds just pointed out where this is still true today. Most of my > exposure to newer, bigger gear is in basic switching for the IX and not in > routing, so I'm not as familiar with where they've gone. It doesn't > surprise me that it's relatively easy to not get line rate routing. > > Just because it's Juniper, Cisco, etc. doesn't mean it's nickle plated > ivory. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Friday, January 15, 2016 8:58:47 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download > > You’re saying the Juniper/Cisco/Brocades of the world traditionally did > not meet their advertised throughputs? I thought they were pretty good > about that. Can you clarify? > > > *From:* Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> > *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 8:30 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download > > The complaints with Mikrotik are rarely about performance, though. They're > about bugs, lack of desired features, being ignored in general. If > performance (non-BGP on CCRs) is the complaint, you simply bought the wrong > box and that isn't Mikrotik's fault. I don't think anyone buys a CCR and > then is upset when it can't do linerate 100G... because it was never > billed as something that can do that. > > Traditionally the big vendors more or less couldn't do what they > advertised. Recently, they've been much better in that regard. > > Obviously from an RB750 to an MX960 there is a wide difference in ports, > performance and price, but how much of that price difference is for the > added capability and how much is the big guy tax? > > There's an awful lot of sunshine being blown up the backsides of people > that think that there's a staggering difference in the attitudes of big > telco vendors and WISP vendors. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Erich Kaiser" <er...@northcentraltower.com> > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Friday, January 15, 2016 8:19:45 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download > > I agree there is a huge price difference between a Mikrotik and a > Juniper/Cisco/Brocade router, but you also need to look at the facts. > Those routers are made to support a Full routed 10Gbps/40Gbps/100Gbps of > throughput per port. With Mikrotik it is a MAYBE it will if I don't do > this or do that.. Obviously there are many models out there, but if you > look at the true carrier grade router lines, it is a full routed port. > > I think each one has its place. > > Just my opinion.. > > Erich Kaiser > North Central Tower > er...@northcentraltower.com > Office: 630-621-4804 > Cell: 630-777-9291 > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 7:37 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > >> The #1 thing I learned at NANOG was that the big vendors are just as full >> of shit as the little vendors. Cisco, Juniper, AlcaLu, etc. are all just as >> likely to ignore problems and create bugs as Mikrotik, Ubiquiti, etc. >> >> When sitting at a table at about 1 AM one night with a head engineer with >> one international operator and one national operator I said something to >> the effect of, "I've just largely been listening to you guys comparing >> notes on different products and issues you've had. I use Mikrotik routers >> in my network and people often say they are junk and that Cisco, Juniper, >> etc. are the way to go. Those vendors are exactly who you guys use and yet >> here you are with the same type of complaints as we have with our vendors." >> The one at the international vendor chimed in, "and we pay 10x more for >> that right." >> >> Don't lose sight of that. >> >> For example, Cisco is known for having Ethernet chipset incompatibility >> issues.... which is exactly what this sub-topic has been about. >> >> >> To think otherwise is simply blind arrogance. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> http://www.midwest-ix.com >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Thursday, January 14, 2016 10:49:12 PM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download >> >> This is sort of an illustration of why I am still very wary of Mikrotik >> for routers. >> >> There's a myriad of Cisco routers available with 12 to 20 SFP-based GbE >> interfacess (used/refurb) that are just as capable, if somewhat bigger and >> hotter, that run very stable versions of IOS. It's totally unacceptable for >> Cisco to break basic functionality for $HUGE_ISP and >> $HUGE_ENTERPRISE_CUSTOMER , which are usually using the same IOS trains I >> use for service provider functions. >> >> Mikrotik OS software support is pretty much "hey go over to this forum >> and hope somebody answers your question", if something is broken you are >> just supposed to wait for a new version release in a month or two. If >> something is fundamentally broken in a version of IOS used by a mature (6+ >> year old) Cisco platform it's almost certain that somebody much bigger and >> more important than yourself has already run into the issue, escalated it >> with Cisco, and a new build fixing the bug is available. >> >> If the space and power are available I would much rather have a 6503E >> with dual supervisor than a CCR.... >> >> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 7:34 PM, Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> >> wrote: >> >>> This just gets even better. Worked 24 hours, then breaks again. Up to >>> Level 4 tech support. >>> >>> >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 13, 2016 7:56 AM >>> >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download >>> >>> >>> >>> We are taking it to the Mikrotik forum. This makes no sense since we >>> have 12 of the already running with no issues. >>> >>> >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >>> Behalf Of *Glen Waldrop >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 13, 2016 7:54 AM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download >>> >>> >>> >>> I’m not terribly happy with ROS since 6.29. >>> >>> >>> >>> Maybe it’s just still not 100% yet. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> >>> >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 12, 2016 8:36 PM >>> >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download >>> >>> >>> >>> Replaced the Mikrotik routers with an Airrouter, it works. Replaced >>> with an Edgerouter, still works. This goes under the category of WTF. >>> >>> >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >>> Behalf Of *Rory Conaway >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 11, 2016 9:13 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download >>> >>> >>> >>> We tried 3 Mikrotik routers, 2 cable modems, and two radios from two >>> different manufacturers. >>> >>> >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >>> Behalf Of *Glen Waldrop >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 11, 2016 8:52 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download >>> >>> >>> >>> MTU? >>> >>> Last time I had that problem was an inconsistent Ethernet connection. It >>> wasn’t showing errors, but UDP was dropping packets. TCP retransmitted. >>> >>> UDP was screwy, but TCP was downloading at the limit of the wireless >>> feed. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> >>> >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 11, 2016 9:47 PM >>> >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download >>> >>> >>> >>> Nailed the problem down to the Mikrotik router having a problem with DNS >>> caching whether it’s Cox or Google. Not sure where to go from there since >>> the other 12 don’t have a problem. >>> >>> >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >>> Behalf Of *Rory Conaway >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 11, 2016 4:44 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download >>> >>> >>> >>> We had raons bit no dangling cables. Level 3 says no errors to the >>> modem and we had a tech out already. We are changing the 2011 to a 450 >>> just to confirm before we eacalate further. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Rory Conaway >>> >>> Triad Wireless >>> >>> >>> >>> Typed on my phone with one finger so please excuse typos and >>> abbreviations. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> >>> From: That One Guy /sarcasm <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>> >>> Date: 1/11/2016 10:38 AM (GMT-07:00) >>> >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download >>> >>> >>> >>> If it just started and youre in an area hit by storms, some of the >>> neighbors, mostly the empty houses with no tenants at this point, cable was >>> busted down by tree limbs and is dangling terminated byt the mud now >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Glen Waldrop <gwl...@cngwireless.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Likely an RF issue on the cable side. >>> >>> I see this sort of thing with the company I consult for. They’ll have me >>> going through the router, trying to shut down the “virus” or peer to peer >>> when it is thousands and thousands of retransmits and broken packets. >>> >>> >>> >>> Just like our wireless it can have good quality until loaded, then watch >>> the quality drop to nearly nothing and loose connection. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> >>> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 10, 2016 8:25 PM >>> >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download >>> >>> >>> >>> The Netgear router has nothing to do with it, I was just using their >>> website as an example of downloading a file. It’s computer, 2011, cable >>> modem, the world. I just can’t download anything from any sites. What’s >>> weird is they just drop. >>> >>> >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof >>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 10, 2016 5:12 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download >>> >>> >>> >>> You mention Netgear, is this a Netgear router? They used to have a >>> problem with downloads stalling, but that was quite a few years ago. The >>> fix was to disable SPI Firewall. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> >>> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 10, 2016 6:06 PM >>> >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> >>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Weird Problem with download >>> >>> >>> >>> We have a cable circuit that can do everything except download. There >>> is a Mikrotik router between the computer and the cable modem. Haven’t >>> tested taking the router out yet but we have tried 2 routers, same >>> results. Basically, downloads either don’t start or start and then just >>> crash. Game machines can’t update, even downloading a 20MB file from >>> netgear fails. Everything else seems to work. Any ideas would be helpful. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO* >>> >>> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040* >>> >>> *602-426-0542 <602-426-0542>* >>> >>> *r...@triadwireless.net <r...@triadwireless.net>* >>> >>> *www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net/>* >>> >>> >>> >>> “Life is full of unfair calls, missed plays, and bad catches. But true >>> baseball players keep on playing” - Lessons from Baseball >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team >>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >>> >> >> >> > > > >
