Yeah I can deal with an expensive AP or expensive CPE, but not both. And sometimes neither.
Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. > On Nov 2, 2016, at 9:59 PM, Ryan Ray <[email protected]> wrote: > > I don't even care so much about the AP cost. The SM is still a killer. > Especially in Canada when it's $400 capped to 10Mb? Come on. > > >> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Bill Prince <[email protected]> wrote: >> But with that one PMP450M AP, you'll use only one channel. Define expensive. >> Expensive money-wise? Sure. Expensive spectrum-wise? Quite the opposite. >> >> >> bp >> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >> >>> On 11/2/2016 8:53 AM, Stefan Englhardt wrote: >>> A sector Rocket AC Prism with AC Sector Antenna is $350. Nanobeam AC 19 is >>> $70. >>> >>> Loading Sector with 20 Users you are at $1750 for AP and CPEs. (With >>> Litebeam CPEs you’re even cheaper). >>> >>> >>> >>> With used PMP450 you are at $4950 with limited CPEs. >>> >>> >>> >>> UBNT AC does TDMA (Mimosa does not) both do no GPS Sync (Dont know who does >>> when but this is how it is now). >>> >>> >>> >>> With UBNT AC you can dare to do 20 CPEs / AP and will see very good >>> results. I would not scale it to > 30 now but looking at the price of APs >>> this is not neccesary. As it is .ac it might get an 802.11ax upgrade in the >>> future. UBNT-802.11n products have an upgradepath which might not be >>> perfect but it is not dead end like PMP320/FSK. >>> >>> >>> >>> So yes PMP450 is expensive. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Von: Af [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Kurt Fankhauser >>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. November 2016 15:38 >>> An: [email protected] >>> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m >>> >>> >>> >>> I can buy a used PMP450 AP for $1200.00. Add KP Omni for $250 so $1,400.00. >>> The mimosa A5-18 Omni lists for $999.00 so the PMP450 is not that much >>> more. I've seen used 450 SM's go for $175 for 20mbps ones. I think the Jury >>> is still out on how well the Mimosa is going to scale. It probably will >>> take years before we know for sure. I definitely would deploy Mimosa over >>> UBNT AC right now. Sounds like Mimosa will have sync and anything without >>> sync these days is basically un-scalable. >>> >>> >>> >>> Now on the PMP450 being expensive, yes if you add up the initial expenses >>> upfront costs are more. But you really have an asset with the 450 because >>> it holds re-sale value very well compared to 802.11 radios. I just sold >>> some old FSK SM's over the weekend for 35% of what i paid for them 10 years >>> ago. Assuming the 450 will still have 50-60% of its value 5 years form now, >>> and the ability to re-coup that money out of the equipment, does it really >>> costs more? I think factoring the re-sale value down the road that it costs >>> less.... >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> For sure frame utilization is important. My thoughts are that if you're >>> loading up that many clients on an AP, maybe you ought to be offering >>> faster plans or removing other restrictions instead of loading up more on >>> an AP. >>> >>> Then again, I don't deploy 450, so I don't have high AP costs to be worried >>> about. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>> >>> The Brothers WISP >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:13:06 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m >>> >>> As long as your downlink and uplink frame utilization is not maxing out on >>> the 450 you can definitely load 100 subs on an AP. With the 30mhz channel >>> width and soon to be 40mhz channel width option with the 450 that will just >>> help get more subs on per AP. I personally have had 50 subs on an old FSK >>> 2.4AP as recent as 1 year ago. that AP was capping out at 10mbps on the >>> downlink side. I have no doubt that with a 40mhz channel width 450 AP which >>> would net about 175-200mbps downlink on average depending on how many subs >>> you have running 6x-8x connections and how busy they are that you could >>> easily fit 100+subs on that AP. With Medusa and the ability to push >>> 300-400mbps per AP I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some people >>> get close to 200 subs on a single AP. Its all about % of frame unitization. >>> >>> >>> >>> Now my next question, is Medusa considered Beam Forming? Wasn't the FCC >>> originally going to allow higher EIRP on "Smart Antennas." Isn't the Medusa >>> about the most smartest AP/Antenna you can get? Just think if the FCC >>> allowed a little more power on the Medusa how much more clients you could >>> get because the range would be better. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I wouldn't load 100 subs onto any platform out there. There's just not >>> enough capacity on any of them. >>> >>> Same frequency. Technology is how they do it. Tons of stuff out there on >>> how beamforming and mu-MIMO works. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>> >>> The Brothers WISP >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 9:05:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m >>> >>> Cambium will never lower SM price until a competitor brings another >>> solution to market that you could also load 100subs on and not have the >>> thing choke. Hopefully Airfiber PTMP will be that. Also what I don't >>> understand about Medusa, since it has a bunch of smaller sectors inside of >>> it,, is the sectors inside of it running ABABABAB frequency re-use? Why is >>> the SM's not getting interference from the adjacent array if they are all >>> operating on same 20mhz frequency? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 9:09 PM, George Skorup <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Update all SMs on the sector to 15.0.0.1. Hang 450m. Shut off 450 sector >>> and turn 450m on. Collect stats and share. :) >>> >>> Don't have high expectations if you have a high concentration of SMs in one >>> direction. But you should really see >>> a difference where they're fairly spread out over 60-90 >>> degrees. Remember it's 7x 13-degree beams and tweaking the azimuth just a >>> little bit may help balance things out. >>> >>> On 11/1/2016 1:58 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote: >>> >>> That is 100% why I want to use it.� We have an overloaded AP and no new >>> frequency.� A 3x performance boost will solve the problem.� I also hope >>> the 17 degree beams will reduce interference seen by the AP. >>> >>> � >>> >>> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Skorup >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:30 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m >>> >>> � >>> >>> The data that Matt showed us at HQ a few weeks ago where an operator (not >>> in the US) with >>> over 100 SMs! on a single 450 sector proved that a performance boost of >>> 3-3.5x is possible simply by swapping to a 450m sector. And that's still >>> using only that single 20MHz channel in 90 degrees. They created this thing >>> for a reason. And that right there is it. Nuckin futs. >>> >>> On 11/1/2016 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>> >>> Rise Broadband.... >>> >>> ? >>> >>> � >>> >>> From: Matt Mangriotis >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 8:08 AM >>> >>> To: [email protected] >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m >>> >>> � >>> >>> I will say that we have a [very large] customer that will remain nameless, >>> which has ~1100 active customers across more than 12 sectors of 450m.� >>> They are very pleased with >>> the performance. >>> >>> � >>> >>> There are several others that are putting up their first sectors now as >>> well.� If you run into issues, we are >>> escalating support cases to our team that has a lot >>> of experience in deploying this model. >>> >>> � >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> � >>> >>> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof >>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 8:34 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m >>> >>> � >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_and_Gaston#/media/File:Alphonsegaston.jpg >>> >>> � >>> >>> � >>> >>> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband >>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 7:39 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m >>> >>> � >>> >>> Our first 450m should arrive this week.� We plan to replace an existing >>> 450 AP that has 66 customers for our first deployment. >>> >>> � >>> >>> However, I do not want to do this until I have heard that there are some >>> installed and working. >>> >>> � >>> >>> Does anyone have 450m up and running.� Would you please share your >>> experiences and results. >>> >>> � >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> � >>> >>> Adam >>> >>> � >>> >>> � >>> >>> � >>> >
