Thanks for the heads up on that. The sales guy ended up being real cool, We had three issues that became deal breakers, the fast increase in port counts, the remote probes, and the inability to differentiate the same netflow coming from multiple routers in the path. He agreed that we should part ways but wanted to do a due diligence with an engineer to ensure that the info he provided along with our experience with the demo was fully accurate. We got together on a teleconference, They do have an additional component that would do the remote probing for 15k, but still not a lightweight poller lime snmpc. We have 26 mikrotiks that would need monitored in our critical paths, that would be 52 ports just to get the minimum monitoring for backhaul ports, another 26-52 if we wanted metrics from the backhauls themselves. This doesnt include our provider ports or any other items we would want. We would have blown through the 100 port license right off the bat to get a just enough monitoring scenario. The netflow differentiate is a limitation of netflow, the engineer said he isnt aware of any system that does that, but he did confess hes not familiar with alot of them. Overall the sales experience was nice with them The cool thing is though, the cash had been appropriated for a solution so we started a Castlerock SNMPc trial to see about renewing our version 7 support contract to get on the newest version and its less to do that than the original quote on solar winds for a new perpetual license. (retail on a non renewal license MSRP at 12k, luckily we someohow got that back in the day) Pretty excited, I already verified a ghetto mechanism to visualize OSPF default paths on the overview map. Granular tiered alerting, long term monitoring, remote off network poller, trap response (we havent had a trap reciever live for years), read/write snmp response thats automated (WOOT!!). I just wish I was still a teenager so I could say im stoked.
On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Paul Stewart <p...@paulstewart.org> wrote: > Sorry to burst your hopes there…. :) i wanted to make sure you knew that > instead of what a sales guy might be pushing… > > if there’s one thing that Solarwinds is very very good at .. it’s pesky > sales people who won’t leave you alone … > > On Nov 11, 2016, at 12:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < > thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > > you just broke my heart > > youre completely right, the remote agent is not a polling probe as I > assumed, I just added one. That was the primary feature I was going to > promote to cost justify since it had revenue potential. > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Paul Stewart <p...@paulstewart.org> > wrote: > >> I’m not aware of it having probe capabilities - just had that >> conversation with them a month ago. >> >> Their only solution is to stand up additional servers in remote locations >> and have them linked back to the SQL backend …. less than elegant and a >> licensing nightmare >> >> >> On Nov 11, 2016, at 11:58 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm < >> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> solar winds has remote probes. I havent done one yet, im waiting on the >> sales guy to get back on the restrictions that imposes as far as selling >> monitoring as a service to contract customers, or even other WISPs. >> >> Im hoping it functions in a similar fashion to the remote pollers in >> SNMPc, just a light piece of software you drop on a machine with access to >> a network that calls home. Unless you have a backup path for the data to >> get to the server, real time would croak out for that network. I enjoyed it >> because I could put a poller on my laptop and drop into a network and scan >> it. I wanted my laptop to get stolen so I could use it as lojac to locate >> it. >> >> There was an option to do a distributed system with snmpc, but there >> would have been no benefit to a remote poller on the same network as the >> distributed server. >> >> We had it set up on a school distrct to monitor their wireless >> infrastructure between campuses, it was sweet because we had no external >> access, but therough the remoute poller tunnel (it calls home) we had full >> snmp read/write access on their network in a secure manner >> >> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Josh Luthman < >> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: >> >>> Xymon FTW! >>> >>> >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>> 1100 Wayne St >>> Suite 1337 >>> Troy, OH 45373 >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> NetXMS *shudder* >>>> >>>> I can just see you sitting there in an argyle sweater sipping tea out >>>> of your Windows95 mug - watching your NetXMS updates in the client. >>>> >>>> ;) >>>> >>>> (To be fair, Xymon is WAY older than NetXMS, but it was here decades >>>> before I was LOL) >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> NetXMS does that. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>>>> *Sent: *Friday, November 11, 2016 9:35:40 AM >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] solar winds network bandwidth analyzer pack >>>>> >>>>> We are still using Xymon in parts of our network simply because it >>>>> supports proxy collectors. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Paul Stewart <p...@paulstewart.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> So that’s one area where Solarwinds falls down in my opinion … there >>>>>> may be workarounds but it’s not ideal for that kind of situation … >>>>>> >>>>>> Some NMS solutions have that capability and I hope Solarwinds will >>>>>> develop it at some point as could really use it for some areas of the >>>>>> network as well >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> How well does it accommodate remote probes? My network isn’t a nice >>>>>> central NOC with backhaul links radiating out, and I need the ability to >>>>>> monitor things like packet loss and latency from multiple points in the >>>>>> network. Also to always have monitoring even if a part of the network >>>>>> gets >>>>>> isolated by multiple failures like during a storm or DDoS. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >>>>>> Behalf Of *Josh Baird >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 11, 2016 8:48 AM >>>>>> >>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] solar winds network bandwidth analyzer pack >>>>>> >>>>>> We use both the Solarwinds suite and Zenoss Enterprise at $realjob >>>>>> (and a few others). >>>>>> >>>>>> $30k is cheap for large shops/enterprises. Enterprise monitoring can >>>>>> get super expensive. Zenoss Enterprise is usually $100+ per device per >>>>>> year. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Paul Stewart <p...@paulstewart.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> LOL … ah yes, Remedy etc …. >>>>>> >>>>>> I’m one of the few that actually really likes Remedy …. but with the >>>>>> caveat that I’m not paying for the system and the team of people to >>>>>> actually run it ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 9:36 AM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, monitoring can get quite expensive. We have some Solarwinds at >>>>>> $day_job along with HP OpenView, but we're about to roll out a full BMC >>>>>> solution. (TrueSight, etc). We also run Remedy, so you know we are >>>>>> gluttons >>>>>> for punishment. >>>>>> >>>>>> We will end up paying more for monitoring this year alone than the >>>>>> average house price in California. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 11, 2016 8:32 AM, "Paul Stewart" <p...@paulstewart.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Well the answer to that question is “it depends” …. I’m a big >>>>>> believer that business is critical on good monitoring (along with good >>>>>> staff, proper procedures etc etc). Putting a dollar value on Solarwinds >>>>>> specific to your business and it’s needs is difficult as everyone is >>>>>> different …. >>>>>> >>>>>> For some people, buying the Windows licenses and a MS SQL backend is >>>>>> a deal breaker right off the bat … for others it’s the actual application >>>>>> costs itself >>>>>> >>>>>> SolarWinds Network Performance Monitor SL100 (up to 100 elements) - >>>>>> License with 1st-year Maintenance >>>>>> $2895 >>>>>> SolarWinds Network Performance Monitor SL250 (up to 250 elements) - >>>>>> License with 1st-year Maintenance >>>>>> $6495 >>>>>> SolarWinds Network Performance Monitor SL500 (up to 500 elements) - >>>>>> License with 1st-year Maintenance >>>>>> $9995 >>>>>> SolarWinds Network Performance Monitor SL2000 (up to 2000 elements) - >>>>>> License with 1st-year Maintenance >>>>>> $18295 >>>>>> SolarWinds Network Performance Monitor SLX (unlimited >>>>>> elements-Standard Polling Throughput) - License with 1st-year Maintenance >>>>>> $30395 >>>>>> >>>>>> List price and they always have some “special” on the go .. but that >>>>>> will typically be 10-30% levels on average. >>>>>> >>>>>> One might argue that alternative system X, perhaps open source, is >>>>>> “free”. It has no licensing …. but then you have the time factor and >>>>>> possibly support elements of who to call for help should you need it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I’m a big fan of open source and Linux solutions ….. not a fan of >>>>>> Windows. But in general, there’s different tools for different needs for >>>>>> different businesses. For our business needs, Solarwinds was a great fit >>>>>> and we found it friendly on budget - we have SLX version of Network >>>>>> Performance Monitor, additional SLX pollers, SQL Enterprise cluster >>>>>> backend, APM SLX monitors and soon will be deploying NCM SLX for >>>>>> configuration stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 9:11 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> You say price isn’t that bad. Whenever I’ve looked at anything from >>>>>> Solarwinds, the price has been way out of reach – serious, serious >>>>>> sticker >>>>>> shock. Did I evaluate incorrectly, or am I just cheap? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On >>>>>> Behalf Of *Paul Stewart >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 11, 2016 4:59 AM >>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] solar winds network bandwidth analyzer pack >>>>>> >>>>>> Solarwinds is interesting software… >>>>>> >>>>>> I’m now on week #4 of “renovating” our Solarwinds deployment…. >>>>>> updating, cleaning stuff up, better automation, better alerting etc etc >>>>>> >>>>>> i’m a Linux guy … really like open source. But for network >>>>>> monitoring I have yet to find an NMS (even commercial) that I actually >>>>>> liked in Linux. it seems strange just saying that as there’s a lot of >>>>>> great TOOLS in Linux but for a full blown NMS that’s where I have my >>>>>> issue. >>>>>> >>>>>> Right now, we run multiple tools on Linux such as Nagios, Cacti, >>>>>> Observium, Collectd, Munin to name a few …. and then we have Solarwinds. >>>>>> All of these systems are disconnected from one another, so a conscious >>>>>> effort has been underway to “standardize’ everything under one platform - >>>>>> and this is Solarwinds. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have been a long time user of their platform - and generally like >>>>>> it quite a bit. I wish it didn’t run under Windows and I wish the >>>>>> performance of the system was better …. also wish they would integrate >>>>>> some >>>>>> of their other products into the “common platform” that they have >>>>>> acquired. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, the price isn’t that bad (that will vary with company size, >>>>>> importance of use etc) and it’s a good system that doesn’t take a huge >>>>>> amount of time to manage/maintain once it’s operational. >>>>>> >>>>>> For their net flow product in particular, depending on number of >>>>>> interfaces and flows, make sure you size the database accordingly…. it’s >>>>>> very hungry for resources in that regard. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 11:31 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < >>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> We are running a demo of this. It started out as an eyeballing a >>>>>> netflow collector and analyzer I dont have to poke all the time. we >>>>>> started >>>>>> scrutinizer, liked it, but found out the price scale killed any chance of >>>>>> getting it approved >>>>>> >>>>>> the pricing for this wasnt as bad, and the sales guy has some >>>>>> incentives, but the whole package was alot, and I didnt intend on even >>>>>> looking at the monitoring side because port based pricing models can >>>>>> quickly get out of hand >>>>>> >>>>>> as part of the initial configuration i seeded the auto discovery just >>>>>> to get through the setup. in the mean time, some other stuff came up and >>>>>> i >>>>>> i got busy, this was friday or thursday >>>>>> >>>>>> we have been having some intermittent issues with periodic slowness >>>>>> to some customers, the symptoms were that of a bottleneck. We had to >>>>>> throw >>>>>> some static routes into our OSPF network defeating dynamics to force >>>>>> traffic out one connection, thinking maybe it was a saturated lower >>>>>> quality >>>>>> upstream, no noteable relief. so we thought maybe we were saturating a >>>>>> backhaul that was getting to high percentage utilization, we added a >>>>>> redundancy and further split traffic up with static routes. no joy. it >>>>>> was >>>>>> at a point where the next step was just going site by site auditing every >>>>>> device...fun since the issue was intermittent, that means multiple times >>>>>> >>>>>> the sales guy wanted me to commit to getting this thing up and >>>>>> running by this weekend so next week we could list out what we want from >>>>>> it >>>>>> and how we achieve it, or if we cant do it. >>>>>> >>>>>> so yesterday i go to turn on the flows and send them to the server, >>>>>> the weird slowness is going on so its irritating me. >>>>>> >>>>>> i decided to clear out the alarms from installation and low and >>>>>> behold theres an alarm on a named interface of one of the routers i >>>>>> tossed >>>>>> in on discovery saying 90 percent or more usage. this is a 366mb licensed >>>>>> link on a gigabit interface, so im quite curious. I drill into the >>>>>> detail, >>>>>> the port is running at 100mb and saturating, i flap the port and its back >>>>>> to gigabit. >>>>>> >>>>>> we only monitor with powercode currently, we have snmpc but its old >>>>>> and shut off. Ive toyed with a whole bunch of other opensource and low >>>>>> cost >>>>>> systems but never had enough time to actually drill down and learn them, >>>>>> i >>>>>> did just get a book on nagios because it was cheap on ebay. >>>>>> >>>>>> powercode is worthless for any amount of invasive alerting or >>>>>> monitoring at any detail, if i want ports identified other than by port >>>>>> number it requires an individual probe. pita. its good for long term >>>>>> static >>>>>> monitoring and some real time tools, but its not an NMS. >>>>>> >>>>>> the point here, is the solarwinds tool is sweet, and for the 100 >>>>>> interface package with a promotion the cost is doable if one takes into >>>>>> account the time investment of the other opensource platforms, >>>>>> installation, learning curve, back end configuration, and plethora of >>>>>> gotchas. >>>>>> >>>>>> this particular issue could have cost us a good deal in man hours >>>>>> tracing it, refunds to customers for service impacts, and potential long >>>>>> term loss of customers. >>>>>> >>>>>> now, once i knew where the issue was, i knew exactly where to look in >>>>>> our existing data to verify it. 20/20 hindsight doesnt mean those are the >>>>>> toolsets that would have been picked out first. if this tool had been in >>>>>> production use, we would have known the first time the link negotiated >>>>>> down, and addressed it before there was any noteable service impact. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you are very frugal in your interface selection, this can be a >>>>>> good choice for an nms (i havent played with the atlas map other than >>>>>> dropping some stuff on it) if you dont want to dick around with a diy >>>>>> solution. its cheaper if you dont add the netflow analyzer package. Its >>>>>> solar winds so its pretty, and user friendly. the flow analyzer does >>>>>> route >>>>>> monitoring too, i havent looked at that, but the salesguy says he thinks >>>>>> we >>>>>> can visualize our ospf with the network atlas component, if thats the >>>>>> case >>>>>> the boss will likely drop cash. licensing is perpetual with 20% yearly >>>>>> for >>>>>> maintenance if you want it >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.solarwinds.com/network-bandwidth-analyzer-pack >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your >>>>>> team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team >> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >> >> >> > > > -- > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team > as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. > > > -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
