Simply math, lots of wrecked spacecraft on the surface of Mars due to simply math. Simply math does not model everything in this case. If it was simply math Vivint would be eating everyone’s lunch by now.
This year we received 4” of rain per hour for several times. Not long duration but long enough to piss off customers that would have gone down. How about snow and snow accumulation on antennas etc? Let the early adopters prove or disprove it. Not me. You use your own money first. From: Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 9:25 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M investment? You don't have to wonder. It's simply math. The big 2.5G IgniteNet has an about -40 signal at 1 km in open space. Full modulation breaks at -60 dB, so you have 20 dB of fade margin. Rain at 60 GHz is about 5 dB/km of attenuation, so you can handle a sustained 4" per hour rain without breaking full modulation on a 1 km link. Measured at the Salt Lake City Zoo, measured on a five minute interval, you should expect to receive 4" per hour every 10 - 25 years. Use the NOAA link on that FB post to see how often you get how much rain at whatever location is more appropriate for you. For Aurora, IL, rain hits 4.76" per hour when measured on a 5 minute interval every year, so a much less reliable link for me than you, all else equal. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 10:12:19 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M investment? Any drop is going to cause a headache. If it drops more than say... dish network or direct tv due to thunderstorms etc it is not going to work for my customers. Time will tell. I will not be an early adopter. From: Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 9:07 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M investment? https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/956205354504917?match=cmFpbg%3D%3D There are a few states that don't have the rainfall information available (Texas and the NW), but it's fairly "easy" to see how often your link should be dropping for how much rain. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 10:05:13 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M investment? I am waiting to hear from folks in Florida how 60 GHz does during heavy rains. I remain a 60 GHz luddite. From: Rory Conaway Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 8:59 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M investment? I’m not dissing 60GHz, I’m all for it. Just not the way they are planning on to do it and the costs involved. It’s just one tool in the toolbox that you need. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Harold Bledsoe Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 6:56 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M investment? As with all things, past performance may not be indicative of future performance. ;-) There is a lot of innovation happening in the mmwave space that will change and is already changing suburban and urban deployments. Just look at what you can already do with Galactus right? On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 2:34 AM Rory Conaway <r...@triadwireless.net> wrote: They are looking at using 60GHz which they have been testing. Considering they already went through $50 or $60M and only have 20,000 customers, I'm thinking it's not a winning profit model. Not being cynical, just realistic after seeing their last efforts. Rory -----Original Message----- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 8:38 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M investment? There are some folks working on some very interesting possibilities ... Late nite sessions in the Hotel Lobby at WISPAmerica Memphis, there was a very interesting conversation with a couple of VIVINT R&D guys. The conversation got everyone's interest, when VIVINT fellow made a statement like.. We are working on a goal of network design and products which would allow us to build and deliver Gigabit service to each Home, via fixed Wireless... (Ok so far so good), and we believe we can do this at approx sub $100 / month recurring service, with a $300/$400 per sub hardware cost. (Hmmmmm now that got everyone attention). They said they are actively looking at using their buying power in bringing costs down for such a network hardware build out for all of us... It was a great discussion, there were a couple of handful of folks there, some money guys, Steve Coran, and a few others... After a little bit more questions and answers, and exploitative exchange, I found myself saying ... yes they are correct, this is doable with (not right now) but in the very near future if one considers the development of what is coming down the pikes and the possible disruptive pricing. So having said that, I don't know the specifics of this particular Silicon Valley WISP's funding, however if they share a similar goal, then yes, it would be a good proposition for them and their investors. Seeing the implementation with micro pops, and Mimosa Gear, delivering 100-150meg for residential subscribers is doable and has a pretty decent ROI, knowing a little bit about what else is in the works with Mimosa and others, including 60-75ghz, yes, the bar for what can be done with Fixed Wireless is definitely getting raised.... Is it for everyone ? probably not, but doing such network will require re-thinking many aspects of the traditional network build-outs, that is for sure. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 8:18:13 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M investment? > That's similar to what I was thinking, but you have more detail. > > "Mesh" as a routing topology is old, tried, and true. A mesh topology > composed of solid PTP connections is a perfectly good idea. > "Mesh" meaning wifi with WDS can't scale for a service provider and is > guaranteed to fail in the long run. > > However, when they say only a few people in the neighborhood need an > installation because we're going to build a mesh, then I'm inclined to > think they're talking about the second thing. > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <fai...@snappytelecom.net> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 6/25/2017 5:30:09 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M investment? > >>Context, context context... >> >>everyone has a different picture in their mind when the word "Mesh" is >>mentioned. However not everyone out there is 'stupid' as everyone here >>is making them out to be... Yes, there are those in the industry who >>simply what OPM (other peoples money) irrespective of any stated end >>goal.... >> >>Having said that, we are starting to see "multi-radio" AP's, so to >>answer your question, using a traditional single radio concept, the >>answer would be NO... however if you think of 'multi-radio' units, >>then the equation can change drastically.... >> >>For those who want to understand this concept better, take a look at >>what Xirrus did/does for high density Wifi deployment, granted they >>get a premium for their stuff, but their "AP" are multi-radio units, >>2/4/8/16 with some combination of 2.4Ghz & 5Ghz... so fast forward >>technology, think of a multi-radio AP, using multiple 2.4ghz, 5Ghz and >>60ghz radios, and now see how far this concept can go ? >> >>Now add to it the additional 64-75ghz band recently opened up by the >>FCC and now we can go a bit farther and a larger scaling the 'Mesh'. >> >>Regards. >> >>Faisal Imtiaz >>Snappy Internet & Telecom >>7266 SW 48 Street >>Miami, FL 33155 >>Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >> >>Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>> From: fiber...@mail.com >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 2:54:46 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M >>>investment? >> >>> Will either of those protocols actually scale to a reasonable >>>number of nodes? >>> >>> Jared >>> >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 >>> From: "Gino A. Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> >>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M >>>investment? >>> >>> With 60 ghz cheap radios and TRILL or SPB, I believe the multi >>>backhaul Mesh >>> coulee be feasible. >>> >>> From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com[mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]> on >>>behalf of >>> "p...@believewireless.net[mailto:p...@believewireless.net]"; >>> <p...@believewireless.net[mailto:p...@believewireless.net]> >>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]"; >>> <af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]> >>> Date: Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 9:34 AM >>> To: "af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]"; >>><af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M >>>investment? >>> >>> >>> Years ago there was a product called, from what I remember, >>>ClearMesh that was >>> very cool. It had 3 FSO >>> links built into that automatically tracked and found new mesh sites. >>>It had an >>> ethernet port that could be >>> fed fiber or to a customer. Range was something like 200M and cost >>>~$7,000 each. >>> Could probably be done >>> a cheaper and more reliable with 24/60GHz. They were hyping it for >>>a couple >>> years and I think it only was >>> on the market for less then a year before they went belly up. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Gino A. Villarini >>> >>> President >>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >>> On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 12:11 AM, Robert >>> <i...@avantwireless.com[mailto:i...@avantwireless.com]> wrote:I >>>tried to work >>> with an Orbi setup but the configuration was locked up against it's >>>own config >>> controls.. i.e. broken. It uses _All_ of the top and bottom of the >>>5 Ghz >>> spectrum and no way to move it's usage around. >>> >>> On 6/24/17 7:41 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:Netgear Orbi does that with >>>4x4 MU-MIMO >>> and multiple radios. Spendy though. >>> >>> - Josh >>> >>> On Jun 24, 2017 9:26 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" >>> <li...@packetflux.com[mailto:li...@packetflux.com] >>> <mailto:li...@packetflux.com[mailto:li...@packetflux.com]>> wrote: >>> >>> I agree with you.... I don't know how many times I've had to >>> explain to people why mesh doesn't work well. And have seen >>> numerous startups fail who think their magic routing voodoo will >>> make this work. It is one of those technologies which just >>> intuitively seems like should work, but doesn't for so many >>> different reasons. >>> >>> At some point someone is going to build a multi-radio beamforming >>> system which will actually result in the promise of mesh being >>> fulfilled without actually using what I would call mesh. With >>> beamforming and distinct radios, one could conceptionally build a >>> dynamic point to point backhaul system. >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Rory Conaway >>> <r...@triadwireless.net[mailto:r...@triadwireless.net] >>> <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net[mailto:r...@triadwireless.net]>> >>>wrote: >>> >>> So someone rediscovered mesh? Umm, yea. $7M down the tubes. >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Af >>>[mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com[mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] >>> <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com[mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]>] >>>On Behalf Of Faisal >>> Imtiaz >>> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:41 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com] >>><mailto:af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M >>> investment? >>> >>> > They advertise 75 Mbps symmetrical service. What radio >>>will >>> do this? >>> >>> All kidding aside, and while I am not going to specifically >>> comment on this particular story.... >>> >>> Having said that, you all should take a closer look at what >>>Kent >>> Urwiller has been doing with his WISP, using Mimosa Gear. >>>(Micro >>> Pops w/fat backhauls). >>> >>> His posts with a great amount of details can be found in the >>> Mimosa Group and RF Elements group on Facebook. >>> >>> Here is a small snippet from one of his recent posts.. "... >>> Pretty dang amazing really. We are seeing around 130-150 >>>Mbps on >>> a 40 MHz channel to each client thanks to 2.3 and C5c. .." >>> >>> >>> :) >>> >>> Faisal Imtiaz >>> Snappy Internet & Telecom >>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>> Miami, FL 33155 >>> Tel: 305 663 5518[tel:305 663 5518] x 232 >>><tel:(305)%20663-5518> >>> >>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518[tel:(305)663-5518] >>><tel:(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or >>> Email: >>>supp...@snappytelecom.net[mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net] >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: ch...@wbmfg.com[mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com] >>> > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com[mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com]> >>> > To: af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com] >>><mailto:af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]> >>> > Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 4:54:19 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets >>>$7M >>> investment? >>> >>> > "We use FCC-approved antennas that transmit data using 5 >>>GHz >>> signals, >>> > similar to the radios in your wifi router, cell phone, or >>> iPad. These >>> > small antennas are installed at your home by professional >>> installers >>> > or through a simple self-setup process, then wired into >>>your >>> wifi router." >>> > >>> > They advertise 75 Mbps symmetrical service. What radio >>>will >>> do this? >>> > >>> > Good way to turn $7M into nothing. >>> > >>> > >>> > From: Gino A. Villarini >>> > Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:30 PM >>> > To: af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com] >>><mailto:af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]> >>> > Subject: [AFMUG] So Silicon Valley WISP startup gets $7M >>> investment? >>> > >>> > Things that make you go ummï¿1Ž2 >>> > >>> > >>> >>>https://medium.com/@rquintini/the-lynchpin-of-the-future-8d3f8217a0ad >>>[https://medium.com/@rquintini/the-lynchpin-of-the-future-8d3f8217a0a >>>d] >>> >>><https://medium.com/@rquintini/the-lynchpin-of-the-future-8d3f8217a0ad[https://medium.com/@rquintini/the-lynchpin-of-the-future-8d3f8217a0ad]> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Gino A. Villarini >>> > >>> > President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto >>> Rico 00968 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ >>> Tel: 406-449-3345[tel:406-449-3345] | Address: 3577 Countryside >>>Road, Helena, MT >>> 59602 >>> forre...@imach.com[mailto:forre...@imach.com] >>> <mailto:forre...@imach.com[mailto:forre...@imach.com]> | >>> http://www.packetflux.com[http://www.packetflux.com] >>> <http://www.packetflux.com/[http://www.packetflux.com/]> >>> >>><http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian[http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian]> >>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux[http://facebook.com/packetflux]> > >> > >> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux[http://twitter.com/@packetflux]>
