Yes. Sonar was not on boarding for someone.
> On Oct 17, 2017, at 17:28, <ch...@wbmfg.com> <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > It never goes smoothly. > > I used to work for banks, talk about a headache when you change out their > software that manages all the customer accounts etc. They migrated off an > old dinosaur main frame to an AS-400 with all the latest software. I think > it took more than 6 months to actually get it up and going. > > I have worked for several telephone companies and all of them have migrated > software, most of them multiple times. Again, never smooth, always pain. > > Ditto for WISPS, been there, done that too. Platypus was probably the > easiest due to the IT department being very hands on through the process. > > It never goes smoothly and they can guarantee everything to work all they > want, but it will not work perfectly without elbow grease. > > From: Nathan Anderson > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 3:21 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar > > Didn't this thread start out with somebody complaining that their new vendor > either wasn't willing to do this or weren't doing an effective or good job of > it? Vendor on-boarding is not always an option, or at least is not something > that is guaranteed to work or go smoothly. > > -- Nathan > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 2:15 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar > > Been through this many times in my life. Done it both ways. Several times. > Prefer the new vendor to do onboarding for me. > You get what you pay for. > > From: Nathan Anderson > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 3:11 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar > > Not true. It doesn't matter what the file format of the export is: you still > have to take the time to figure out how to shoehorn data from one schema into > another. As talked about earlier, maybe you'll get support from your new > vendor with that, maybe not. There will be mistakes made during that > process, and some of it will have to be re-done. You also have to hook the > new product into all of your authentication systems and then test that to > make sure it works and doesn't suddenly break people's connections. > > Then there will be the mistakes that come from actually using the new > software that you are unfamiliar with, and/or cajoling it to do what you need > it to do and which you already knew how to do with the old software. People > will get billed wrong for a while and then you'll have to sort out that mess > as your customers bring the billing mistakes to your attention. Some people > that need to get billed won't be...others will get double-billed. Pro-rates > will get miscalculated. The system will on-hold somebody by mistake that > shouldn't have been. And on and on. > > If the software is locally hosted, you can learn a new system and transition > over to it on your own schedule, instead of being pushed into the deep end of > the pool on day 1. > > -- Nathan > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 2:04 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar > > Export backups as CSV and you can re-import it into any database. You will > only be screwed for a very short time. > > From: Nathan Anderson > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 2:13 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar > > I have to say that I'm partially with Matt on this one. > > It's really not about access to your own data, although that can certainly be > a component depending on how things are designed. It sounds like perhaps > Sonar has no problem giving you reasonable access to exports of your data for > you to backup yourself, and for the moment, I'm going to give them the > benefit of the doubt on this. > > I don't think I have to convince anyone how critical billing software is to > an organization. If it screws up or stops working, you are losing money, and > fast. > > The SaaS model has some clear benefits to both parties (developer and user), > but it has an equal number of new downsides as well. One > big-E-on-the-eyechart one is what happens if the product is discontinued, > either because the parent company/developers go out of business or for some > other reason. > > In the traditional software licensing and hosting model, where you use your > own computing resources to execute the code, if the development company goes > out of business one day, the software that you still possess a copy of does > not suddenly become less useful to you. Sure, you won't get future upgrades > and fixes to the product from the vendor, but at least you have some time to > figure out what your options are and how you want to proceed, and you can > migrate to a new platform on YOUR OWN timetable, not someone else's. And in > the meantime, your business operations are not negatively impacted. > > In the SaaS model, it doesn't matter if you have a complete, unabridged, and > up-to-date export of the data: when the product is discontinued without > warning, and the company shuts down the software servers, YOU ARE SO SCREWED. > That data export does you zero good if you don't have product to process and > interpret and act on it. In the case of billing software, this means you are > not collecting payments for service from your customers, which is a big > problem. Even if you could find a suitable replacement for the software the > next day, you still have to figure out how to massage the data export you do > have so that the new software can import it, work through the inevitable > imperfections of that import (certain fields from the export that don't map > cleanly to fields in the new product), learn a new piece of software from > scratch, and figure out how to get by or work around issues resulting from > "feature X" that you depended heavily on in the old software but which no > longer exists in any form in the new one. Things WILL be complete chaos for > a while; there's no way around this. > > We are actively looking for a new billing platform, and in the meantime we > have been running a piece of software that we bought and implemented back > when it was in active development but which has now been discontinued for > years. The reason that this is even possible is because it is self-hosted. > Back when this product was being developed, it was very popular and sold very > well. Nothing is "too big to fail"...nothing. Heck, Google has shitcanned > their fair share of services over the years after deeming them inviable, > leaving devoted users of them high-and-dry. > > That we have personally experienced having a billing software vendor go > belly-up gives us great pause when it comes to evaluating our options in the > hosted/cloud space. This is not to say that we would never consider > billing-in-the-cloud, but it would have to be awfully compelling, and I think > it would greatly help if there were certain guarantees in place. One example > would be if the developer held the source code of the software in escrow, to > be automatically released if a "dead man's switch" were tripped. I suspect > this is what Matt has in mind when he talks about "contracts" -- they are not > just about protecting the seller, but about protecting both parties. > > -- Nathan > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 11:37 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar > > Local install. > > On Oct 17, 2017, at 13:32, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote: > > Good luck with that. Any company could close up shop today, and if they are > bankrupt, they are bankrupt. > > On Oct 17, 2017 12:27 PM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote: > It also means at any point they can just close up shop leaving my data and my > customer information high and dry with no recourse. > > On Oct 17, 2017, at 13:24, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote: > > They provide enough value to avoid locking you in a contract that would > otherwise retain your business when they don't continuously earn it. > > Others are NOT the same. > > On Oct 17, 2017 12:22 PM, "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote: > No contract? That's frankly beyond scary. > > On Oct 17, 2017, at 13:06, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Sonar is strictly per user with no contract, so if you haven't migrated any > users in yet then you pay the minimum.....which I think is $100/month. > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 10/17/2017 9:16:46 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar > > Fail. > > On Oct 17, 2017, at 08:54, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Many of them start charging you regardless if you are on their system yet. > Once you sign the contract, you start paying. > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 6:00 PM Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com> wrote: > I can understand this if the product in question is purchased/licensed for a > one-time upfront fee. However, if you have a SaaS model with recurring > revenues, it seems like it would be in your best interest to help the > customer move existing data over to your product cost-free, and thus get them > to be a paying customer ASAP. > > > > -- Nathan > > From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Lewis Bergman > <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 3:36 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar > > Yea, this seems to be a common practice in the software industry. What they > all should really say is that they help you convert. I am going through this > with ECi at the moment. We paid several thousand for them to convert our > database. What it really was was a half hearted gesture at putting the DB > into an excel spreadsheet that they spent zero time checking for sanity. They > expect us to do all that. > > It seems that most software companies expect their customers to have a whole > team of people doing what seems to be the software companies job. Not saying > Sonar fits the description, just that that seems to be the rule not the > exception. > > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 5:24 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> > wrote: > Taking forever to migrate from Platypus to Sonar. > > I was told conversion was free, but they didn't tell me I had to do all my > own conversion from Plat to Sonar, so in my mind that's not free. > > I paid Spender Lambert to move some initial data to their format, but I've > been on a hold with Sonar since last month. > > Super excited to get going with a 'modern' billing system, but so far the > process has been a total snoozer. > >
