What is one of the easier components of an AGI services platform and what theory is mature enough to enable it? Jim Bromer
On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 1:07 AM Nanograte Knowledge Technologies via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> wrote: > > Disagreed. If you had the design and capability to code, there's no reason > why such a system could not be developed. Assuming a core-systems dev > approach was used as phase 1, all key components could be developed and > integration tested as a proof of concept. > > As architect I have the design and ability to translate it into pseudo code, > but I lack the programming skills. According to my version, this is one of > the easier components of an AGI services platform. The theory is mature > enough to enable this. > > ________________________________ > From: Jim Bromer via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> > Sent: Friday, 12 October 2018 8:59 PM > To: AGI > Subject: Re: [agi] Compressed Algorithms that can work on compressed data > > "which had the sole intent to achieve and maintain the > highest-potential level of competency" > This is obviously an exaggerated goal for anyone today and certainly > for any of us and it is really not what I tried to describe in my last > message. I am thinking about achievable goals, and the main problem > that I see is that mundane necessities, like search, compare, and > refinement of an interpretation, is a fundamental obstacle to creating > a program that can actually acquire information by interacting in ways > that even young children can.. > Jim Bromer > On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 2:47 PM Nanograte Knowledge Technologies via > AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> wrote: > > > > Agreed. According to your version of such a system, you would probably run > > out of processing power. > > > > Consider Michael Shumacher, the 7-times world record holder in F1 racing. > > It was said about him that he was so gifted, he used only 10% of his brain > > power to drive the car, and the other 90% to plan how to win the race. In > > other words, he was a predictive genius. > > > > Suppose then, 1 of the 16 levels was a generic, regenerative, > > methodology-producing engine, which had the sole intent to achieve and > > maintain the highest-potential level of competency in any situational > > domain (autonomous effective complexity with least "brain power"required). > > Suppose we viewed this as part of AGI "DNA". > > > > How would such a computational architecture be different to your version? > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Jim Bromer via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> > > Sent: Friday, 12 October 2018 7:35 PM > > To: AGI > > Subject: Re: [agi] Compressed Algorithms that can work on compressed data > > > > The potential to create specialized data structures for AGI might have > > a (specialized) advantage that is unlike anything that you are > > familiar with. So these data structures would be compressed, but the > > compression might exist at different levels or different depths. They > > might exist at different depths because they refer to concepts (groups > > of interrelated concepts) that existed at different conceptual levels > > of 'resolution'. For example, there are distinctions between > > particulars and generalizations but there are also differences between > > general subject matter and vaguely understood references. Also there > > could be different levels of (effective) compression based on > > different kinds of relationships between concepts. For another example > > of how these computable references might be used, in some cases they > > will try to come up with specifics given some situation but in other > > cases they might come up with possible variations of what might be > > relevant to a situation and come up with some possibilities about how > > the program might react to find more information. > > There is only one thing wrong with this plan. It would be too slow - > > unless these reactions could be computed quickly and efficiently. If > > an artificial system of storing concepts was designed to efficiently > > produce results that could be used to design and shape interactions > > with the user, the program might get enough information to be able to > > figure out how to interpret what was being said.Jim Bromer > > > > On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 9:28 AM Nanograte Knowledge Technologies via > > AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> wrote: > > > > > > I think, for your AGI ideas, you'll require a Symbolism Management > > > subsystem. But first, answer the question: > > > "What is Jim's version of AGI Symbolism Management?" > > > > > > As a case in point, what you thus might call 'Symbolism Management', I > > > might just call 'Illusion Management'. > > > > > > In my mind, my system would potentially cope with up to 16, real-time > > > integrated levels of abstraction. Furthermore, this has potential to open > > > the door for access to the magical 256 NP-Complete findings. > > > > > > Rob > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Jim Bromer via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> > > > Sent: Friday, 12 October 2018 11:27 AM > > > To: AGI > > > Subject: Re: [agi] Compressed Algorithms that can work on compressed data. > > > > > > The idea of relative randomness of a given compression is kind of > > > interesting. > > > There are some compressions which may be transformed without fully > > > decompressing it. In fact LZ, if I understand correctly, uses what has > > > already been compressed to append a next section to be compressed. And > > > computational mathematics, using n-ary or base n representation, is > > > actually a case of applying functions on compressed data. And most > > > data base functions which use one part of many data records to compute > > > some value are examples of effectively using compressed data without > > > fully decompressing it. (The one part of the data that is being used > > > is an abstraction of a transaction for instance.) > > > I am really thinking about specialized fields of data. And I do have > > > an idea for AGI in which data may be stored in various levels of > > > compression. Ideas may refer to a subject matter (or subjects) in > > > various levels of resolution which can also overlap other concepts in > > > various ways. I am almost sure that I could make this work for some > > > artificial data (or artificial formations of references) and then use > > > it to make successive computations of how concepts might interact. But > > > right now I I nterested in seeing if there is any way I can use any of > > > these ideas to create a novel way to represent logical relations. > > > Jim Bromer > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 4:59 AM Andrés Gómez Emilsson via AGI > > > <agi@agi.topicbox.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > If the algorithm for compression is good then forget about it. In that > > > > case the best (and near only) way is to uncompress the file and then > > > > re-compress it with the new, more effective algorithm. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 10:53 PM Nanograte Knowledge Technologies via > > > > AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> A discussion centered around pseudo randomness. > > > >> > > > >> As a private experiment on randomness, I once took published data of > > > >> cosmic noise and tabled it in an appropriate way. Within less than 54 > > > >> iterations, emerged a consistent, embedded pattern. My conclusion was > > > >> that cosmic noise was pseudo random. Would my experiment destroy the > > > >> lava-lamp theory of true randomness? Possibly. > > > >> > > > >> Recently, someone quoted Gell Mann. His established view on randomness > > > >> is most enlightening. > > > >> > > > >> As far as I can tell, true randomness cannot be observed, because the > > > >> instant it is observed the energy of observation destroys the purity > > > >> (or truth) thereof. Unless you're a remote viewer, or supernatural > > > >> observer it would seem that science has fallen foul of its own need > > > >> for empirical evidence. Solve the problem: How does one observe > > > >> without observing at all? > > > >> > > > >> Matt, I think you have earned an olive branch in that within a > > > >> bridging, scientific theory (Existentialism) you may call any thing > > > >> whatever you want, for as long as you have it clearly objectified; > > > >> defined in terms of meaningfulness and applied in a consistent, > > > >> semantic manner. I think the prior statement contains a hidden key. > > > >> > > > >> If so, then you may rely on the probability of your accepted version > > > >> of that thing. Further, to ensure it would remain correct and complete > > > >> within your particular system. How do you do that? > > > >> > > > >> Still, easy to translate across boundaries as well. > > > >> > > > >> *One's shoe may be another's steak. That is the nature of true > > > >> relativity in motion. > > > >> > > > >> Rob > > > >> ________________________________ > > > >> From: Jim Bromer via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> > > > >> Sent: Friday, 12 October 2018 3:34 AM > > > >> To: AGI > > > >> Subject: Re: [agi] Compressed Algorithms that can work on compressed > > > >> data. > > > >> > > > >> Matt said, "A string is random if there is no shorter description of > > > >> the string." > > > >> > > > >> That is a conjecture, or a hypothesis. > > > >> > > > >> Matt said, "... but there is no general algorithm to distinguish them > > > >> in any > > > >> language. > > > >> "Encrypted data appears random if you don't know the key. But it is not > > > >> random because it has a short description (compressed plaintext + > > > >> key). Kolmogorov proved that there is no general algorithm to tell the > > > >> difference." > > > >> > > > >> if there is no general algorithm to distinguish or detect them then > > > >> the hypothesis cannot be validated. While you might present a string > > > >> and declare it to be "random" the fact that you cannot prove that it > > > >> is the shortest description of the string and therefore purely random, > > > >> or random, then the conjecture cannot be sustained. > > > >> Jim Bromer > > > >> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 1:37 PM Matt Mahoney via AGI > > > >> <agi@agi.topicbox.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:38 PM John Rose <johnr...@polyplexic.com> > > > >> > wrote: > > > >> > > OK, what then is between a compression agents perspective (or any > > > >> > > agent for that matter) and randomness? Including shades of > > > >> > > randomness to relatively "pure" randomness. > > > >> > > > > >> > A string is random if there is no shorter description of the string. > > > >> > Obviously this depends on which language you use to write > > > >> > descriptions. Formally, a description is a program that outputs the > > > >> > string. There are no "shades" of randomness. A string is random or > > > >> > not, but there is no general algorithm to distinguish them in any > > > >> > language. If there were, then AIXI and thus general intelligence > > > >> > would > > > >> > be computable. > > > >> > > > > >> > > From an information theoretic (and thermodynamic) viewpoint in > > > >> > > your mind what happens when you see the symbol for infinity? > > > >> > > Semi-quantitatively describe the thought processes? > > > >> > > > > >> > The same thing that happens when you see any other symbols like "2" > > > >> > or > > > >> > "+". Mathematics is the art of discovering rules for manipulating > > > >> > symbols that help us make real world predictions. > > > >> > > > > >> > -- > > > >> > -- Matt Mahoney, mattmahone...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Andrés Leonardo Gómez Emilsson > > > > Sentient Being (or Consciousness Narrative Stream, depending on how you > > > > want to look at it) > > > > Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions + > > > > participants + delivery options Permalink > > > Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions + > > > participants + delivery options Permalink > > Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions + participants > > + delivery options Permalink > Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions + participants + > delivery options Permalink ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T4629b4e0158d34e1-M74f71e61491c650d8c907977 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
