Todor, you seem confused as to how a machine trained to predict text can be indistinguishable from conscious. I mean, this is what everyone on this list was trying to build. And now it is here, and you can't believe it. Do I understand you correctly?
-- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] On Wed, Apr 8, 2026, 12:32 PM twenkid <[email protected]> wrote: > > https://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/2026/04/common-confusion-about-agency-will-soul.htm > > A discussion about the paper on Academia.edu: > ** The Asymptotic Illusion: On the Ontological Limitations of Artificial > Agency, *Mohamad Al-Zawahreh, 25.12.2025 > https://www.academia.edu/s/06c854dde5 > > <https://www.blogger.com/blog/post/edit/5038575496362915977/6360608488321697022#> > *Todor Arnaudov* > <https://www.blogger.com/blog/post/edit/5038575496362915977/6360608488321697022#> > 10 days ago > <https://www.blogger.com/blog/post/edit/5038575496362915977/6360608488321697022#> > Hi, this is a common confusion - building a straw-man of Turing machines > or "computation" as defined in this abstract sense, while the counterpart > argument refers to the full "stack" definition of the systems, down to the > lowest level virtual universes (See Theory of Universe and Mind, T.A. > 2001-2004+, e.g. "Stack Theory is yet another fork of Theory of Universe > and Mind", 2025). Neither computers, nor LLMs, AI (in whatever form) or > whatever are "just" algorithms, "computation" etc. - they are immersed in > the Universe and their implementation includes those "non-computable" parts > as well. On the other hand, all these advanced thinking, theories, logic, > reasoning about "quantum" etc. would have been impossible without all the > science and technology, all "mechanical" processing etc., i.e. the mighty > "conscious" being wouldn't have been capable to even formulate these > problems and their [personal] "superiority", they would have been just > silly apes. There are a lot of discussions about that in TOUM, including > the latest additions in the hyperbook *"The Prophets of the Thinking > Machines: AGI & Transhumanism: History, theory and pioneers; past, present > and future"*. One point which I addressed in a letter to the cognitive > semioticists Jordan Zlatev: the LLMs have no consciousness, but "just" etc. > [see in appendix "Reflections on Everything" (Listove) from "The > Prophets"]. However I haven't read anything but my own thoughts regarding > the following problem, which is valid for humans and their mind as well: *WHAT > and WHERE *exactly* the LLM is located, why and who (evaluator-observer) > sets the boundary exactly there (at what resolution of causality-control > and perception) and what *exactly* it is when fully defined in order to > function. It is not "just" the weights of the NN (what the h* is "NN" in > the physical universe - it includes the whole hardware, all chips, all > connected computers - your PC or smartphone, the routers, the Internet > servers, the main GPU servers; it included the original data, the data in > the memory (other representation); it includes also the *HUMANS* who > interact, their biology, their states; it is a result of a chain of > operations and activities of all related humans and other technologies and > ultimately it requires the whole universe to be what it is. * However, > this is refuted and "vulgarized" to "they are algorithmic, they are "just > 1s and 0s", "switches" (the earlier nonsense about computers, still > defended e.g. by F.Faggin). > (...) > See the link for the complete comment and references to additional > material. > ... > > *The Sacred Computer: Thinking Machines, Creativity and Human Development > - *since 2000 > https://github.com/twenkid/sigi-2025 > https://github.com/twenkid/sigi-202 <https://github.com/twenkid/sigi-2025> > 6 > > > > *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>* > / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + > participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + > delivery options <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> > Permalink > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T6856665e9e29064f-Mf9a5bfbf95400d5d960fbbf6> > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T6856665e9e29064f-M9c08e0e630d50e94ee14b4cc Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
