I agree with every word you wrote.
I am confident people would do it even if they knew (and that will be hotly
debated when and if such technology arise) it would be just copy.
But by definition even if it is only a copy, it will say and act as if it was
the original who got transfered. So to me it will not be proof enough of my own
survivability (but as you said, to many it will be). You say in such a
scenario, about 99.9% of people will do it. I am convinced they would. I am
less convinced, if the technology involves killing the original (and it has to
in order for people to believe the mind is really transfered instead of copied)
that those 99.9% won't be commiting mass suicide. That is what I found
grotesque and terrifying at the same time.
I am also certain I would do it where I in an imminent death position. Why not.
It won't be me but it will somehow be my legacy that goes on. I actually would
owe it to myself to give a new me a chance to experiment all the wonders of the
other side (not death).
But I am also not convinced that we won't expand life span over ridiculously
long time that aging and sickness could be avoid by the time we get where mind
uploading is possible. And that makes the idea of self digitalization while
killing the original even more horrendous. There are many interpretations to
this and I am not saying mine is the right one. But it will needs lots of
convincing for me to go through this. And I believe a lot of people might end
their life unaware of what will really be happening.
Or we have no idea what we talk about and the future will be even stranger than
we think.
One last thought, even assuming that the process kills the original and makes a
copy, and that I would never do it, I would be in favor of those who would
willingly, after making an informed decision, proceed with it. It wouldn't b e
my place to tell them not to.
Simon
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 04:39:04 +1100
Subject: Re: [agi] AGI and evolution
From: marcoalpin...@gmail.com
To: a...@listbox.com
Hi, I may be too simplistic but when I try to imagine how
mind uploading will come into play in the real world I imagine that the first
tests on humans will be on terminal ill persons with no hope of survival. If
they will emerge from the uploading conscious, self-aware of being the same
person, having a sense of continuity with the past, and saying; wow,
I fill fantastic and I fill exactly like before! then other people will
unavoidably
follow the same path and I bet you all will do the same.
I imagine that at that time technology will be advanced
enough to provide to these people with new nice bodies of some kind and they
will
not be trapped in a box. You may be all young fellows, but I am aging and when
you start seeing your body falling apart while your mind is going in the other
direction you will become more flexible in judging what it is acceptable and
what it isn’t.
If this is the scenario, what would you do, you die, bye
bye? Or you save your mind knowing that even if something is not perfect it will
be improved later on.
This is the starting point. No clones, no disturbing
duplications or sick practices it will only be preservation. It will come
natural, the old population instead of being lost, and their minds destroyed,
those minds will transit into a different physical medium but they will
continue to exist and develop in a second life theoretically with indefinite
duration.
We could go even forward, did you ever lost a son, a wife or
the like? What about if it would have been possible to save her or his mind and
give
her a new body? No thanks, I don't like clones? But you know that other people
did it and they emerged exactly like they
were before. Believe me 99.9% of the people will go for it. It is not about the
body it is about the mind.
As the birth rate will continue to decrease it is not given
that the overall population will go out of control, but in the long run it will
certainly increase if nobody will die anymore for natural causes. However the
environmental
footprint of the uploaded people will be much less and therefore we will be
able to go on for a long time. Anyway looking beyond this is how and why we
will colonize other planets, the uploaded population will be able to migrate to
other
places and travel across space.
If this technology will become possible there is no way that
the above can be avoided, you like it or not. It is much more reasonable to
take the point that mind uploading is technologically impossible, it make more
sense to me.
On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 2:08 AM, simon <simonb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Still you talk Buddhism as if it was a proven thing. Or to be precise, as if it
was, as opposed to a belief, something so obvious that eventually everyone will
come to this conclusion by themself. Unless maybe you were refering to a
previous discussion about a realized consciousness that I missed.
To me, the idea of illumination through meditation looks strangely like an
intense excercise of reframing your view of the world to achieve a higher
degree of happiness but I doubt it should be credited with any degree of truth
above any other biaised beliefs. Until I'll see an illuminated being appearing
out of nowhere, I don't think I will revisit this position.
I'd like to thank Ben for pointing me in the Morphic field theory direction.
Never heard of it and obviously if any theory implies the continuity of my
counsciousness, I would have no more philosophical problem to proceed with mind
uploading (provide I am convinced by it).
I like the "Cloud Valley" tag. It has a ring to it.
Best of day to all.
Simon
Subject: Re: [agi] AGI and evolution
To: a...@listbox.com
From: justca...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:00:24 +0200
p.s.: From what I understand, a realized consciousness (which
transcended the illusion of form) is capable of manifesting in the
physical world using multiple embodiments at the same time anyway.
An analogy for my more academic friends would be: Once a "World of
Warcraft" player dis-identifies with his game character and actually
realizes that he is stuck within a game world and once he/she
investigates into how the backend of WoW works, etc. ... he/she
becomes able to control multiple characters in various ways.
-- jc
On 14.10.2015 04:46, Ben Goertzel
wrote:
On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 4:06 PM,
justcamel <justca...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Mind
uploading makes no sense. Just ignore it. It's something
people who never explored how their consciousness works
love to talk about. Most of the academic world falls into
that category ...
You can't use electrodes or any other baryon matter based
technology to copy non-physical aspects of our existence
... yet the materialists will talk about mind uploading
for many decades to come ... who can blame them ... they
are a product of cultural indoctrination ...
Hah, OK, I'll take the bait, my friend ;)
I suspect that consciousness and mind *do* have aspects
extending beyond our spacetime continuum. Yet I still
think mind uploading is likely going to be possible. If
these trans-physical aspects obey morphic field type
behavior patterns, then they will attach themselves to
your upload, as a corollary of having been attached to
you...
Morphic field theory suggests that the non-physical
aspects of mind would transfer to your upload, so
uploading is not just killing yourself and replacing
yourself with a copy...
But this is, of course, philosophy (or future science?)
that is out-there by current conventional standards --
including by the standards of most of my OpenCog
collaborators! ... we just don't understand these aspects
of mind well enough to incorporate them in detailed work
on AGI or mind uploading, etc.
-- Ben G AGI
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