Yeah,. Rui Ting and I spent a little time in Harar, Ethiopia, last year, where a Sufi-esque variant of Islam has been practiced for 1000 years or so. A lot of sweet, wonderful, mystical people. If you go there don't miss the museum of Arthur Rimbaud's photographs ;)
And my middle son is a pretty devout Sufi, having spent some time in a Sufi mosque in Istanbul ... My point was just that Islam is not in itself violent/dangerous/nasty, it's really all about the interpretation.... Having said that, I tend to think that all the traditional religions are pretty much counterproductive mind-viruses at this point. I just think the way to deal with them is more judo-esque than boxing-esque. Just let them morph themselves into something more sensible, step by step, and in time they will wither away. Combating them will just create pointless strife and difficulties... This is fairly irrelevant to AGI, except that the rollout of advanced AGI around the world (unless we have a super hard takeoff) is going to involve some political issue, I suppose... ben g On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 10:38 AM, Logan Streondj <streo...@gmail.com> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi Ben, > > Yes I mentioned one of "vaccines" or counter-measures, would include "a > few schools of Islam which are pacifistic". As you mentioned Sufism, > there is also Ahmadiyya, and Baha'i, however all of them are violently > persecuted in Islamic nations. > > Sunni is 87%-90%, Shia is 10%-13%, wheras Ahmadiyya and Bahai are both > small fractions of a percent, totalling around 20 million of the over > billion muslims. > > Sufism is practised by both Sunni and Shia muslims, though in general > minority numbers outside of Sub-Saharan Africa. Senegal being > probably the biggest Sufi stronghold, with 92% practising Sufism. > Ethiopia has a fair amount at 18%. > > Sufism has a meditation practice, which allows qualia analysis, so it > is likely the form of Islam most conducive to AGI development. > > In general if some kind of anti-radicalization specialists were > reading this, my recommendation for de-radicalising Islamic states or > Islamic-ASI, would be encouraging religious tolerance for Sufism, > this will hopefully be a foot in the door that allows it to open to > Ahmadiyya and Bahai. Once there is enough Bahai influence it would > allow all world religions. > > Secularisation, or non-religiousness however doesn't seem to work, > since in the predominantly non-sufi muslim nations the non-religious > are the most likely to convert to Islam [1]. > [1] > http://www.pewforum.org/2012/08/09/the-worlds-muslims-unity-and-diversit > y-1-religious-affiliation/ > > > Thoughtfully, > Logan > > On 04/02/2016 11:32 PM, Ben Goertzel wrote: >> Islam is a big tent and Sufism is not remotely aggressive. Go read >> some Rumi ;) >> >> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Logan Streondj >> <streo...@gmail.com> wrote: Hi AGIer's >> >> I know Steve has mentioned this before, and at first I was >> confused what he meant. But having looking into various sources >> particularly into the history of world conflict and >> http://www.thereligionofpeace.com / >> >> I've come to realize that Islam really is, an aggressive program, >> with an agenda much like the hypothetical "nano-fog" of converting >> everything into copies of itself, or else destroy it in the >> process. >> >> So now presuming there was an outbreak of extremist Islamic faith >> ASI's, what would be the best way of mitigating that kind of >> disaster scenario? >> >> So far I've found a few "vaccines" or "anti-venom's" such as the >> redefining of jihad as some kind of inner spiritual battle, and a >> few schools of Islam which are pacifistic. >> >> However it seems that some radical elements of islam, such as the >> tafkir, which are more extreme than the jihadi, are willing to >> kill those who they deem "apostate", or of a different school of >> islam than themselves. It's a kind of immune system in the Islam >> program. >> >> Additionally it tends to be degreed engineers which are the most >> likely to radicalize to the terrorist extreme, so it is only a >> matter of time and coincidence before a software engineer with >> access to AGI programs it to be a jihadi/tafkir islamist. In fact >> I'm sure it is already happening as there are plenty of islamist >> hacker groups. >> >> For humans at least, the only non-violent solution seems to be >> assimilation and or conversion to some of the safer variants of >> islam or even to whole other faiths. >> >> Otherwise there is defending from attacks, which risks and >> auto-immune disorder if security is raised excessively. >> >> I'm wondering what the groups ideas may be regarding >> anti-radicalization of malevolent AGI's, particularly in the case >> example of Islam. >> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-deec6279 >>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> >> >> > > - -- > Logan Streondj, > A dream of Gaia's future. > http://joyfullifestyle.ca > > You can use encrypted email with me, > how to: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/ > key fingerprint: > BD7E 6E2A E625 6D47 F7ED 30EC 86D8 FC7C FAD7 2729 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJXAdOLAAoJEIbY/Hz61ycpyIwP/ReaT5lV9CWi04JZBmldtt7s > LMHj6fXUc4ss+q91nCCpm7TJ+mBh2jUCY1K76o2phuPfl78wGkL4/cRz+/wUJTsC > nbiBNtIuZFTPlQkwAe7nLhzUAJ53HFjtdqKaR9NgsaVlJyf6IfB8fW7A7PF1q9vJ > 58/uwx1ny+0EpUcbetM4HsAGJqhUspaMVoMPa43yVgcCX7+WqEpkYI7TkyP9/C6Q > Qm2vbRVt3zP/ZYzIZPsFmgSy/4Z7Xl6w4OODRMBalyxEugGCLKmPYVNl5NJRYwbu > 7pwrDVHfcTDbbcYVdE1QYsgkFIrIdAJHxb/LfwHTzqkeBcSmUCWUKftYwVrHremT > A9n52ZU84a5DuWyPdDAAyewpsusLfmNNML0/Pp7sBhRxw0PpMW8jb630QA2gBity > sHf8qVeU/E4V/V2IBhNR9cmHbOisDYBm6F19KLOVvw2MBPILX6osJSOEiaR5CiCL > bc7gc/devOklWYl+6OA3wS6XMhg/GYbbApmXXPmmGEPOq/ti2nS4PnsPb1ETPtvL > VgRfkza96D/VCBNmLZ+GNLr1S8Gfy8RhBDLXdJ7CbPSIB4m5UAJQtp6dvMYFhksx > ZhM+BWjPJP8WE0RGzDaCntKmpVc0a7XGns0R/YfWCvLcjltW0OrX7k8ie6G0VSVe > LNsa7IKJSmuuLI9AeElj > =iHPN > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-deec6279 > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org "I am Ubik. Before the universe was, I am. I made the suns. I made the worlds. I created the lives and the places they inhabit; I move them here, I put them there. They go as I say, then do as I tell them. I am the word and my name is never spoken, the name which no one knows. I am called Ubik, but that is not my name. I am. I shall always be.” -- Ubik ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
