> -----Original Message-----
> From: TimTyler [mailto:[email protected]]
> 
> Uh huh. So what? Here's the source vs deaths/trillionKWhr chart:
> 
> 
> Coal – global    100,000   (50% global electricity)
> Coal – China     170,000   (75% China’s electricity)
> Coal – U.S.      10,000    (44% U.S. electricity)
> Oil              36,000    (36% of energy, 8% of electricity)
> Natural Gas       4,000    (20% global electricity)
> Biofuel/Biomass  24,000    (21% global energy)
> Solar (rooftop)     440    (< 1% global electricity)
> Wind                150    (~ 1% global electricity)
> Hydro – global    1,400    (15% global electricity)
> Hydro – U.S.          0.01 (7% U.S. electricity)
> Nuclear – global     90    (17%  global electricity w/Chern&Fukush)
> Nuclear – U.S.        0.01 (19% U.S. electricity)
> 
> Source:
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/06/10/energys-deathprint-
> a-price-always-paid/
> 
> Nuclear power is still much safer that solar and wind (its nearest competitors
> in safety, neither of which generate much electricity). If you are against
> nuclear power, you are pro-killing people, ISTM. To reiterate, the problem
> with deploying nuclear power it not its safety record, which is generally
> excellent. It is popular opposition.
> People support and vote for more dangerous technologies.
> Environmental activism is a significant part of the problem, ISTM. The
> resulting deaths appear to be largely the responsibility of vocal
> environmentalists. Precaution kills.
> --
> 

Have to be careful about where the numbers come from as they are always skewed 
one way or another. 

Example:
Yearly deaths in US by guns:
Guns: 19
Bullets: 32,000

Akin to Forbes' number:
Nuclear: 90
Cancer/birth defects caused by nuclear: (???)

Raw "scores" don't tell the whole story, simple numbers are a compressed view 
that can be decompressed in various ways.

While I agree with coal's safety issues and death cost nuclear is sadly 
underexaggerated, Fukushima being the glaring example (which you are 
ignoring?). I'm against nuclear in its current implementation for that reason, 
the potential for accidents, until it's truly reset, i.e. shut unsafe plants 
like those built on fault lines and Tsunami zones? Being pro or con something 
is a fuzzy line.

It's good that we still have a choice before nuclear is ready for further 
deployment. The opportunity to choose is good. Cautionary opposition needs to 
be listened to and incorporated instead of ignored and discouraged since who's 
lives are getting changed anyway?

When you look  at computer intelligence take this example:

Microsoft Windows share of desktop operating system deployment is enormous. The 
dependency on it is widespread. In the latest Windows 10 incantation, Cortana 
the AI assistant, is enabled by default with no easy way to disable for a 
typical user. This is how things are getting spoon fed, no choices allowed, 
that's what I fear with AGI. 

But should we just go all-in and assume things will get fixed? Assume a few 
accidents will occur since people die either way? AGI may be on the level of 
nuclear where accidental damage could last thousands of years and some 
organizations reap the rewards but avoid responsibility. So we should look at 
safety precautions and protocols and backup plans. In most industries there is 
a small percentage of resources rigidly devoted to that; chemical, biological, 
electrical, etc.. Why is there NONE for software/internet intelligence? Because 
we ARE currently going all-in, white-knuckled, no looking back. Why?  Is it 
delusional? Or is checking for delusion anti-science?

John







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