David, thanks for the thoughtfull comments..
I was not necessarily proposing a "conservation of information" theory ;) But possibly a "conservation of knowledge" theory :) Sometimes in my own discovery process it seems that instead of actually learning something new, I am rather uncovering something that I somehow already knew. As if something is revealed to me. Its more akin to unearthing hidden treasure than manufacturing a new thing from scratch. In this sense, I wonder if the universe does not already "know" everything that we(sentient beings) have ever known and will ever know. In fact, this is my current thinking, which doesn't have to be shared by others :-p Sorry Ben for the somewhat off-topic thoughts... Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. David Noziglia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [agi] more interesting stuff > > Brad, > > > > I would say that complex information about anything can be conveyed in > ways > > outside of your current thinking, but if you ask me to prove it, I cannot. > > There is evidence of it in things like the ERP experiment which show the > > existence of a possible substrate that we have not yet measured or > > verified... > > > > Question: the big bang occured in a closed system, yet the "information" > for > > every phenomena we witness was the result of that occurance. How was that > > information stored? How did it get promulgated? > > > > Kevin > > > > All of the comments on this thread are based on the assumption that > information is a fixed quantity at some level, either the organism, the > ecology, the ecosystem, or the universe. > > What if it's not? I have not the training or background to make an > academic, formal case for this, but I would submit that the universe, and > many parts of it, generate information and complexity. In part it is due to > the resolution of real events from the indeterminacy of quantum states > (decoherence). In part it may be due to the creation of pattern from > deterministic chaos. In part it may be due to some manner or other of > evolutionary action -- biological, yes, but not just that, as Lee Smolin has > proposed. Or just think of the process of the growth of knowledge by the > one intelligent species we know of. > > Thus, the answer to the question of where complexity comes from is, it is > generated by complex systems getting more complex as time goes by. And, as > Stuart Kauffmann has shown, the initial complexity doesn't have to be that > great to start the ball rolling. Think of it as a feedback loop, or > whatever you're compfortable with, but there is merit in thinking that the > sum total of information grows over time. Information isn't energy; it's > organization (with or without a center). > > There are those who think that wealth is a fixed sum, and that if any > individual or group becomes rich, it must be because he/she/they have stolen > or extracted that wealth from others, making them poor. There are others > who believe that wealth is created, that Bill Gates (whatever else we think > of him) has generated his wealth, and that the personal computer, > information technology, and communications technology have made lots of > people richer without taking away from anyone. > > Same thing. We know more than Aristotle did. We may not be smarter than he > was, but we understand a hell of a lot more. Life and civilization may > collapse, but that isn't an entropic phenomenon, just the application of a > lot of stupidity or maybe even dumb bad luck. > > We could even say that information growth -- by the measure or at the behest > of all the processes mentioned earlier -- defines the arrow of time that is > left without direction in a purely deterministic universe. > > P.S.: That's one reason, by the way, that we can't build, even > theoretically, an AGI capable of holding all knowledge. > > C. David Noziglia > Object Sciences Corporation > 6359 Walker Lane, Alexandria, VA > (703) 253-1095 > > "What is true and what is not? Only God knows. And, maybe, America." > Dr. Khaled M. Batarfi, Special to Arab > News > > "Just because something is obvious doesn't mean it's true." > --- Esmerelda Weatherwax, witch of Lancre > > > ------- > To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, > please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ------- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
