Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I personally don't understand why everyone seems to insist on using
>ambiguous illogical languages to express things when there are viable
>alternative available.
I think because an AGI needs to communicate in languages that people already
know. I don't understand how artificial languages like Lojban contribute to
this goal. We should focus our efforts instead on learning and modeling
existing languages.
I understand that artificial languages like Lojban and Esperanto and Attempto
have simple grammars. I don't believe they would stay that way if they were
widely used for person to person communication (as opposed to machine
interfaces). Languages evolve over time, both in individuals, and more slowly
in social groups. A language model is not a simple set of rules. It is a
probability distribution described by a large set of patterns such as words,
word associations, grammatical structures and sentences. Each time you read or
hear a message, the probabilities for the observed patterns are increased a
little and new patterns are added. In a social setting, these probabilities
tend to converge by consensus as this knowledge is shared. Formal definitions
of artificial languages do not capture this type of knowledge, the thousands or
millions of new words, idioms, shared knowledge and habits of usage.
Even if we were able to constrain the grammar, you still have the problem that
people will still make ungrammatical statements, misspell words, omit words,
and so on. A language model must be equipped to deal with this. It means
evaluating lots of soft constraints from a huge database for error correction,
just like we do to resolve ambiguity in natural language.
-- Matt Mahoney, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message ----
From: Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 3:04:49 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [agi] Understanding Natural Language
"It was a true solar-plexus blow, and completely knocked out, Perkins
staggered back against the instrument-board. His outflung arm pushed the
power-lever out to its last notch, throwing full current through the
bar, which was pointed straight up as it had been when they made their
landing."
LOJban: zo'e seDARxi foloMIDjubeloCUTne gi'e CIRko leVACri leFEPri
Prolog:
gihe(['fa'],darxi(_,_,_,lo('MIDju',[be(lo('CUTne'))])),cirko(_,le('VACri'),le('FEPri'))).
English: unknown is hit at locus "that which really is the middle of
the chest" and unknown is a loser of air at/near lungs.
LOJban: .i la.PERkinz. FALdzu seka'aleTUTcizeiTANbo
Prolog: gihe(['fa'],faldzu(la('PERkinz')), klama(_,le(zei('TUTci','TANbo'))))
English: Perkins (fell kind of walked, I don't know what stagger
really means, dictionary didn't help much, walking with uncertainty?
Probably not the intended meaning here.) (with destination) tool kind
of (board/plank).
DARxi dax da'i hit
x1 hits/strikes/[beats] x2 with instrument [or
body-part] x3 at locus x4
CIRko cri lose
x1 loses person/thing x2 at/near x3; x1 loses
property/feature x2 in conditions/situation x3
I hope Ben Goertzel has introduced you to Lojban already -- I haven't
checked the logs but saw his lojbanplusplus proposal.
I personally don't understand why everyone seems to insist on using
ambiguous illogical languages to express things when there are viable
alternative available. The mass can get it's English translation
rendered out of a Logical language very easily. It's harder to make a
translation function from English to Lojban, than one from Lojban to
English. Though it is possible and I'm sure it will be done as that
would mean we could have a Prolog database of facts representing any
english text. Such as say the book you were refering to.
I'm currently working on a Lojban parser in Prolog. I've just recently
started learning Prolog though the program is going rather well that
considered. I currently have support for CMAvo(read "grammar word(s)")
and GISmu(read "root word(s)"), in the example I gave I also used a
LUJvo(read "compound word(s)") and CMEne(read "name(s)") all of wthich
I have support for in my Haskell(with Parsec) Lojban Parser(there is
one more Lojban word class fu'ivla for foreign words, I'll get support
for that as well). I started coding the Prolog parser maybe a week
ago, so it should be able to parse all Lojban text before the new
year.
Well after that there will be a pretty trivial design phase of the
Lojban-to-Prolog translator, which will support direct conversion.
Then a rewrite of the Lojban-to-Prolog parser and translator in
Lojban. We'll have the first ever programming language that is used
for human-to-human interaction (I use it everyday) http://lojban.org.
mibaziKLAma(I short time interval future am goer)
.imu'o(over to you)mi'e.LOkadin.(my name is Lokadin.)
On 11/24/06, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Oh, I think the representation is quite important. In particular, logic lets
> > you in for gazillions of inferences that are totally inapropos and no good
> > way to say which is better. Logic also has the enormous disadvantage that
> > you
> > tend to have frozen the terms and levels of abstraction. Actual word
> > meanings
> > are a lot more plastic, and I'd bet internal representations are damn near
> > fluid.
>
> "Logic" is a highly generic term ...
>
> I agree with your statement re crisp predicate logic as typically
> utilized, but uncertain term logic does provide guidance regarding
> which inferences are apropos.... It also however gets rid of the
> elegance and compactness that YKY likes: an uncertain logic
> representation of a simple sentence may involve tens of thousands of
> contextal, uncertain relationships, possibly including the "obvious"
> ones involved in the standard crisp predicate logic representation...
>
> -- Ben G
>
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--
ta'o(by the way) We With You Network at: http://lokiworld.org .i(and)
more on Lojban: http://lojban.org
mu'oimi'e lOkadin (Over, my name is lOkadin)
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