On 12/5/06, John Scanlon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Your message appeared at first to be rambling and incoherent, but I see that that's probably because English is a second language for you. But that's not a problem if your ideas are solid.
English is my second language. My first language is Russian but I've lived in Canada for just over 13 years -- I don't speak Russian on a day to day basis. Lojban I have only known about since last spring. Currently I use Lojban on a day-to-day basis. Perhaps Lojban is changing the way in which I think and the changes are expressing themselves in my English. I admit I like using attitudinals .ui(happiness).
And yes, language is an essential part of any intelligent system. But there there is another part you haven't mentioned -- the actual intelligence that can understand and manipulate language. Intelligence is not just parsing and logic. It is imagination and visualization that relates words to their referents in the real world. What is your idea of how this imagination and visualization that relates language to phenomena in the real world can be engineered in software
If you mean "how will pattern recognition work in the visual/auditory/sense system of the AI": - I don't need cameras for keyboard input, OCR, or voice recognition can handle other forms of language input. - Cameras and detecting "real" things isn't really my goal. I just want to increase productivity through automation of the things people do. - There are lots of people interested in graphics and pattern recognition. They can always extend the system. The design goal is really to make an easily extendable sustainable scalable complex computer/network that takes care of itself. If you mean something else you will need to elaborate for me to reply as I'm having trouble understanding what it can mean.
in such a way that the singularity will be brought about?
I believe in hard-determinism implying anything you or I do is leading to the Singularity -- if it is meant to be. The point at which should start growing very fast is shortly after there are over 150 developers/users on a "social augmentation network". MULno JIKca seZENba TCAna Complete Social Augmentation Network: sa'u(simply speaking) is a network that allows for the automation of social activities such as fact/state exchange to allow for creative endeavours to be the sole occupation of the users (all/most other processes having been automated) for entertainment. Mind-altering tools are definitely going to be very popular in such a world. My aim is not a General AI, currently it's MJZT. General AI just seems to be a side effect .u'i(amuzement). Nodes in a JZT communicate through language (and whatever form it may take), automation occurs of the communication. After a certain point a typical JZT "automation" would be able to have a conversation with an ordinary human and the human will have trouble seeing the JZT as an inferior entity(revised Turing test).
Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin wrote: > On 12/5/06, John Scanlon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Alright, I have to say this. >> >> I don't believe that the singularity is near, or that it will even occur. >> I >> am working very hard at developing real artificial general intelligence, >> but >> from what I know, it will not come quickly. It will be slow and >> incremental. The idea that very soon we can create a system that can >> understand its own code and start programming itself is ludicrous. >> >> Any arguments? >> ________________________________ > > Have you read Ray Kurzweil? He doesn't just make things up. There are > plenty of reasons to believe in the Singularity. Other than disaster > theories there really is no negative evidence I've ever come across. > > "real artificial intelligence" > > .u'i(amusement) A little bit of an oxymoron there. It also seems to > imply there is "fake artificial intelligence".u'e(wonder). Of course > if you could define "fake artificial intelligence" then you define > what "real artificial intelligence" is. > > Once you define what "real artificial intelligence" means, or at least > what symptoms you would be willing to satisfy for (Turing test). > > If it's the Turing test you're after as am I, then language is the > key(I like stating the obvious please humour me). > > Once we established the goal -- a discussion between yourself and the > computer in the language of choice. > > We look at the options that we have available: natural languages; > artificial languages. Natural languages tend to be pretty ambiguous > hard to parse, hard to code for -- you can do it if you are a > masochist I don't mind .ui(happiness). > > Many/Most artificial languages suffer from similar if not the same > kind of ambiguity, though because they are created they by definition > can only have as many exceptions as were designed in. > > There is a promising subset of artificial languages: logical > languages. Logical languages adhere to some form of logic(usually > predicate) and are a relatively new phenomenon(1955 first paper on > Loglan. All logical languages I'm aware of are derivatives). > > Problem with Loglan is that it is proprietary, so that brings us to > Lojban. Lojban will probably not be the final solution either as there > is still some ambiguity in the lujvo (compound words). > > A Lojban-Prolog hybrid language is currently being worked on by myself. > > In predicate logic(as with logical languages) each "sentence" has a > predicate(function .i.e. KLAma). Each predicate takes > arguments(SUMti). > > If you are to type a logical sentence to an inter perter depending on > the kind of sentence it can perform different actions. > > Imperative statement: mu'a(for example) ko FANva zo VALsi > meaning: be the translator of word VALsi > > This isn't really enough information for you or I to give a reply with > any certainty as we don't know the language to translate from and the > language to translate to, which brings us to. > > Questions: mu'a .i FANva zo VALsi ma ma > meaning: translation of word VALsi into what language from what language? > (.e'o(request) make an effort to look at the Lojban, I know it's hard > but it's essential for conveying the simplicity with which you can > make well articulated unambiguous statements in Lojban that are easy > to parse and interpret.) > > To this question the user could reply: la.ENGlic. la.LOJban. > meaning: That which is named ENGlic That which is named LOJban. > > If the computer has the information about the translation it will > return it. If not it will ask the user to fill in the blank by asking > another question (mu'a .iFANva fuma) > > There are almost 1300 root words(GISmu) in Lojban with several hundred > CMAvo. For my implementation of the language I will probably remove a > large amount of these as they are not necessary(mu'a SOFto which means > Soviet) and should really go into name(CMEne) space(mu'a la.SOviet.) > > The point being, that there are a very finite number of functions > that have to be coded in order to allow the computer to be able to > interpret and act upon anything being said to it(Lojban is already > more expressive than a large amount of Natural Languages) . > > How is this all going to be programmed? > > Declarative statements: mu'a FANva zo VALsi la.ENGlic. la.LOJban. > zoi.gy. word .gy. > meaning the translation of word VALsi to ENGlic from LOJban is "word". > > Now the computer knows this fact (held in a Prolog database until > there becomes a logical-speakable language compiler). > > I will create a version of the interpreter in the lojban-prolog hybrid > language (More or less finished Lojban parser written in Prolog, am > now working on Lojban-Prolog hybrid language). > > Yes I know I've dragged this out very far but it was necessary for me > to reply to: > >>The idea that very soon we can create a system that can understand its own >>code > Such as the one above described. > >> and start programming itself is ludicrous. >> > > Depends on what you see as the goal of "programming". If you mean: > > > Optimization: easily (can evolve faster/smaller functions using > input/output with genetic algorithms or whatever algorithm is desired > (can conceivably make a function with input/output, algorithm as > arguments) > > Learning new Information: Declarative statements allow it to learn new > information, declarative statements from other languages are just as > good once translated. > > There are probably more goals I just have forgot to mention, > .e'o(request) reply expressing them. > > > -- > ta'o(by the way) We With You Network at: http://lokiworld.org .i(and) > more on Lojban: http://lojban.org > mu'oimi'e lOkadin (Over, my name is lOkadin) > > ----- > This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email > To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: > http://v2.listbox.com/member/?list_id=303 > ----- This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?list_id=303
-- ta'o(by the way) We With You Network at: http://lokiworld.org .i(and) more on Lojban: http://lojban.org mu'oimi'e lOkadin (Over, my name is lOkadin) ----- This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?list_id=303
