OK, but you have not yet explained what your theory of consciousness is, nor what the physical mechanism nor role for consciousness that you propose is ... you've just alluded obscurely to these things. So it's hard to react except with raised eyebrows and skepticism!!
ben g On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Colin Hales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > Ben Goertzel wrote: > > > Hi, > > My main impression of the AGI-08 forum was one of over-dominance by >> singularity-obsessed and COMP thinking, which must have freaked me out a >> bit. >> > > This again is completely off-base ;-) > > > I also found my feeling about -08 as slightly coloured by first hand > experience from an attendee who came away with the impression I put. I'll > try and bolt down my paranioa at tad... > > > COMP, yes ... Singularity, no. The Singularity was not a theme of AGI-08 > and the vast majority of participant researchers are not seriously into > Singularitarianism, futurism, and so forth. > > Good, although I'll be vigorously adding non-COMP approaches to the mix, > and trusting that is OK > > > There was a post-conference workshop on the Future of AGI, which about half > of the conference attendees attended, at which the Singularity and related > issues were discussed, among other issues. For instance, the opening talk > at the workshop was given by Natasha Vita-More, who so far as I know is not > a Singularitarian per se, though an excellent futurist. And one of the more > vocal folks in the discussions in the workshop was Selmer Bringsjord, who > believes COMP is false and has a different theory of intelligence than you > or me, tied into his interest in Christian philosophy. > > >> The only reason for not connecting consciousness with AGI is a situation >> where one can see no mechanism or role for it. >> > > > Seeing a "mechanism or role" for consciousness requires a specific theory > of consciousness that not everybody holds --- and as you surely know, not > even everyone in the machine consciousness community holds. > > Personally I view the first-person, second-person and third-person views as > different perspectives on the universe, so I think it's a category error to > talk about "mechanisms of consciousness" ... though one can talk about > "mechanisms that are correlated with particularly intense consciousness", > for example. > > See my presentation from the Nokia workshop on Machine Consciousness in > August ... where I was the only admitted panpsychist ;-) > > http://goertzel.org/NokiaMachineConsciousness.ppt > > ouch 10MB safely squirreled away under GforGoertzel, thank goodness for the > uni bandwidth.. :-) > > I think I rest my case. You cannot see a physical mechanism or a role. I > can. > > Inventing/adopting a whole mental rationale that avoids the problem based > on an assumption about a 'received view' is not something I can do...I have > a real physical process I can point to objectively, and a perspective from > which it makes perfect sense that it be responsible for a first person > perspective of the kind we receive.........and I can't/won't talk it away > just because 'Ben said so', even when the 'category error' stick, is > wielded. That old rubric excuse for an argument doesn't scare me a bit ... > :-) Consciousness is a problem for a reason, and that reason is mostly us > thinking our 'categories' are right. > > Interestingly, my model, if you stand back and squint a bit, can be > interpreted as having an 'as-if pan-psychism was real' appearance. Only an > appearance tho. It's not real. > > Anyway... let's just let my story unfold, eh? It's a big one, so it'll take > a while. Fun to be had! > > Thanks for the 'Hidden Pattern' link... I shall digest it. > > cheers > colin > > ------------------------------ > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be first overcome " - Dr Samuel Johnson ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
