Rob, I just LOVE opaque postings, because they identify people who see things differently than I do. I'm not sure what you are saying here, so I'll make some "random" responses to exhibit my ignorance and elicit more explanation.
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:53 AM, rob levy <r.p.l...@gmail.com> wrote: > In order to have perceptual/conceptual similarity, it might make sense that > there is distance metric over conceptual spaces mapping > It sounds like this is a finer measure than the "dimensionality" that I was referencing. However, I don't see how to reduce anything as quantized as dimensionality into finer measures. Can you say some more about this? (ala Gardenfors or something like this theory) underlying how the > experience of reasoning through is carried out. > This has the advantage of being motivated by neuroscience findings (which > are seldom convincing, but in this case it is basic solid neuroscience > research) that there are topographic maps in the brain. > However, different people's brains, even the brains of identical twins, have DIFFERENT mappings. This would seem to mandate experience-formed topology. > Since these conceptual spaces that structure sensorimotor > expectation/prediction (including in higher order embodied exploration of > concepts I think) are multidimensional spaces, it seems likely that some > kind of neural computation over these spaces must occur, > I agree. > though I wonder what it actually would be in terms of neurons, (and if that > matters). > I don't see any route to the answer except via neurons. > > But that is different from what would be considered quantitative reasoning, > because from the phenomenological perspective the person is training > sensorimotor expectations by perceiving and doing. And creative conceptual > shifts (or recognition of novel perceptual categories) can also be explained > by this feedback between trained topographic maps and embodied interaction > with environment (experienced at the ecological level as sensorimotor > expectations (driven by neural maps). Sensorimotor expectation is the basis > of dynamics of perception and coceptualization). > All of which is computation of various sorts, the basics of which need to be understood. Steve ============= > On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Ben Goertzel <b...@goertzel.org> wrote: > >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Steve Richfield < >> steve.richfi...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Ben, >>> >>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Ben Goertzel <b...@goertzel.org> wrote: >>> >>>> know what dimensional analysis is, but it would be great if you could >>>> give an example of how it's useful for everyday commonsense reasoning such >>>> as, say, a service robot might need to do to figure out how to clean a >>>> house... >>>> >>> >>> How much detergent will it need to clean the floors? Hmmm, we need to >>> know ounces. We have the length and width of the floor, and the bottle says >>> to use 1 oz/M^2. How could we manipulate two M-dimensioned quantities and 1 >>> oz/M^2 dimensioned quantity to get oz? The only way would seem to be to >>> multiply all three numbers together to get ounces. This WITHOUT >>> "understanding" things like surface area, utilization, etc. >>> >> >> >> I think that the El Salvadorean maids who come to clean my house >> occasionally, solve this problem without any dimensional analysis or any >> quantitative reasoning at all... >> >> Probably they solve it based on nearest-neighbor matching against past >> experiences cleaning other dirty floors with water in similarly sized and >> shaped buckets... >> >> -- ben g >> >> >> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | >> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=8660244-6e7fb59c Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
