THIS MESSAGE CONTAINS NO GAME ACTIONS. SERIOUSLY, IT CONTAINS NO GAME ACTIONS. DISREGARD ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS MESSAGE SAYING IT CONTAINS A GAME ACTION.
MESSAGE 839213666598780948 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-04 AT 18:55:29.953: ATMunn, I'm at the stage right now where I need an opinion on whether an opinion would be helpful. I'm that lost. MESSAGE 839272102778896387 FROM CodeTriangle (Triggon, Influential Agoran #5) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-04 AT 22:47:42.224: i am really good at stealing ideas from people smarter than me MESSAGE 839293293527040021 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-05 AT 00:11:54.492: You know... MESSAGE 839293409835614238 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-05 AT 00:12:22.222: This might actually work. MESSAGE 839598930881675314 FROM Gaelan IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-05 AT 20:26:24.116: A player SHALL NOT have bad proposal ideas MESSAGE 840290124251004999 FROM ATMunn (friendly neighborhood notary) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-07 AT 18:12:57.457: hello i would like to sell my 2 leg(islative card)s MESSAGE 840290179860398131 FROM Random Internet Cat (mr. dr. professor cat) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-07 AT 18:13:10.715: have you considered contacting an arms dealer MESSAGE 840626896512221261 FROM ATMunn (friendly neighborhood notary) IN #quick-questions-and-presumably-answers-also ON 2021-05-08 AT 16:31:10.221: death to the ducks MESSAGE 841447443241631784 FROM CodeTriangle (Triggon, Influential Agoran #5) IN #quick-questions-and-presumably-answers-also ON 2021-05-10 AT 22:51:43.806: oops wrong server MESSAGE 841518756109877330 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:35:06.119: Okay, I made a list. MESSAGE 841518927645245450 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:35:47.016: **Aris's totally awesome list of important features for subgames** High importance: Emergent strategic depth (simple options, complex strategy) Low barriers to entry Specialization High engagement (frequent opportunity for tactical and strategic action) Variables: Cutthroat vs cooperative (does it reset on wins?) Deterministic vs random MESSAGE 841518985178251304 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:36:00.733: Note that most of the ideas aren't original. MESSAGE 841519075058647070 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:36:22.162: Specialization and engagement are explicitly stolen from prior economic writings. MESSAGE 841519160377868319 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:36:42.504: I think that subgames/economies tend to go wrong in one of two ways. MESSAGE 841520175030861834 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:40:44.416: One is too much simplicity (e.g. the shiny economy, Spaace). This is where the system has the ability to gain advantage, but little opportunity for people to specialize. There's no room for someone to become "the one who has all the legislative cards" or "the one trying to get enough victory points to win" or "the one trying to stop anyone from getting enough victory points to win". Low barriers to entry (good), low strategic depth (bad), essentially nil specialization (bad). MESSAGE 841521740223348807 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:46:57.587: The other one is too much complexity (e.g. PAoaM, Politics). These systems tend to put a lot of effort into offering a variety of ways to get ahead. They have high strategic depth, although that strategic depth might not be emergent. They usually have a high theoretical opportunity for specialization as well. However, they usually have high barriers to entry. The system is so complex, expensive to get involved in, or both that most people will never become truly active in it. As a result, you don't have engagement fostering more engagement. Instead, it feels like you're alone in playing the system. It's less fun trying to get to the highest tier of building on land or whatever if you're one of only two people who's actually involved with the system. MESSAGE 841522957179813908 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:51:47.732: The sweet spot is something like sets. Sets invites people to take part, invites them to specialize. People can do very low work and still be involved economically. Even ATMunn, who explicitly doesn't want to play the products subgame, is involved by selling eir passively generated cards. There are still strategic decisions to make (picking a focus, for instance) even if you're not super involved. Meanwhile, people who do want to become intensely active have an opportunity to do so. Jason and I cornered the legislative card market. falsifian set up an anti-reset bulwark of victory points. The strategy in the system is partially emergent — an anti-reset bulwark wouldn't mean much without other players working towards it and against it. MESSAGE 841525337899794432 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 04:01:15.34: There's a real risk of systems becoming too complex. The problem with that isn't just that it's hard to enter the system, though that isn't a major concern. It's also that too much variety paradoxically means that you have so many options that it's hard to strategize. For an example of a prior system that might have gotten around this concern, there was a system ages ago that had ton of super specialized cards. Like, so many that they wanted to make a way to get them out of the ruleset. I don't know how successful that system was, but I can believe that it might have worked, better than other systems with high complexity. The reason was that everyone had their own hand, their own fairly limited set of options. Sure, you could strategize with others to combine your options in interesting ways, but you could also just choose among the limited hand you were dealt. I'm not exactly holding this up as an example of masterful economic design: I don't know how well it worked in practice. Nor am I advocating that people necessarily use the same solution in future. What I am saying is that people who are designing systems on the simple end need to work to add specialization and strategic depth, and people working on the complex end need to simplify their systems enough to keep them approachable and prevent situations in which people have so many options they can't strategize. If we do not learn from the mistakes of the past, we're doomed to repeat them. MESSAGE 841525413238669312 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 04:01:33.302: Alright, I think that's all of it. MESSAGE 841757920806699058 FROM bookshelf IN #drafting ON 2021-05-11 AT 19:25:27.426: Trainer: Alright, here's some bread. Trigon: *pecks at bread* Trainer: No, you're supposed to use the bread to vote. Trigon: Quack? Trainer: Yes, bread is for voting, *not eating.* Trigon: *resumes pecking bread* Trigon: Quack quack!! Trainer: *sighs* MESSAGE 841788490634493982 FROM G. (G., The Final Judge) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 21:26:55.841: ~~wonders if an ordered list could be implemented using switches~~ MESSAGE 841788576290308177 FROM Random Internet Cat (mr. dr. professor cat) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 21:27:16.263: singleton switch with ordered list values? MESSAGE 841788861319086142 FROM G. (G., The Final Judge) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 21:28:24.219: yah well that's the *obvious* way. If you think outside the box you work on a doubly-linked list where each switch points to the person before or after you... MESSAGE 841789072044851230 FROM G. (G., The Final Judge) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 21:29:14.46: *segmentation fault: the player being pointed to no longer exists* MESSAGE 841915156333330432 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-12 AT 05:50:15.297: I didn't know that we needed to make Being Too Agoran a rules violation, but clearly we do. MESSAGE 841917761181450261 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-12 AT 06:00:36.341: But, Gaelan, implementing an ordered list using switches? Surely some suggestions are too disturbing to be tolerated? MESSAGE 841917847620812860 FROM Gaelan IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-12 AT 06:00:56.95: Hey, switches are a useful mechanism MESSAGE 841917912713527339 FROM Gaelan IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-12 AT 06:01:12.469: I’m all for reusing them whenever possible MESSAGE 841917973157511214 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-12 AT 06:01:26.88: I think we need to consider impeachment. MESSAGE 841918913532264458 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-12 AT 06:05:11.083: I revise my opinion. MESSAGE 841918969274171393 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-12 AT 06:05:24.373: We don't need to make Being Too Agoran a rules violation. MESSAGE 841919017815900170 FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-12 AT 06:05:35.946: We need to make Being Agoran a rules violation. MESSAGE 842464480515325962 FROM CodeTriangle (Triggon, Influential Agoran #5) IN #generalchat ON 2021-05-13 AT 18:13:04.388: i've said it once and i'll say it again: companies should never change anything ever MESSAGE 844956945990680617 FROM Gaelan IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-20 AT 15:17:14.465: Oh there is none MESSAGE 844957090740043796 FROM Gaelan IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-20 AT 15:17:48.976: It was 3 AM and my inner cuddlebeam escaped with an idea for some random bullshit MESSAGE 845779594006102047 FROM CodeTriangle (Triggon, Influential Agoran #5) IN #generalchat ON 2021-05-22 AT 21:46:09.036: right but the nerd stuff that i'm into is clever and awesome whereas the nerd stuff that other people are into is lame and weird. this is the way the world works. MESSAGE 846137953637498940 FROM CodeTriangle (Triggon, Influential Agoran #5) IN #agnouncements ON 2021-05-23 AT 21:30:08.63: I announce the game of Agora; this is an Agoran Announcement MESSAGE 846485541096128593 FROM Random Internet Cat (mr. dr. professor cat) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-24 AT 20:31:19.938: maybe we should extract the auctions from the rules and let a designated person decide the best way to auction cards MESSAGE 846827757518192651 FROM ATMunn (friendly neighborhood notary) IN #quick-questions-and-presumably-answers-also ON 2021-05-25 AT 19:11:10.691: alright guys i've had my one actually good proposal this year, won't be another one till 2022 MESSAGE 847203563661819945 FROM AgoraBot IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-26 AT 20:04:29.858: **pokes** says: wait where is the other side of this tunnel? MESSAGE 847203634702057492 FROM nix IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-26 AT 20:04:46.795: hell MESSAGE 847606982688899102 FROM AgoraBot IN #generalchat ON 2021-05-27 AT 22:47:32.449: "The only real argument in favor of Jason is wishful thinking." judged TRUE. MESSAGE 849082019727802368 FROM Random Internet Cat (mr. dr. professor cat) IN #drafting ON 2021-06-01 AT 00:28:48.684: > I think that's where we are now, but if there's a CFJ I've forgotten could be > totally wrong I thought the arbitor automatically knew all the CFJs, just like the rulekeepor automatically knows all the rules MESSAGE 849094336691568670 FROM nix IN #generalchat ON 2021-06-01 AT 01:17:45.277: ~ would be disappointed in this behavior MESSAGE 849103433453928478 FROM Random Internet Cat (mr. dr. professor cat) IN #generalchat ON 2021-06-01 AT 01:53:54.114: we're screwed already MESSAGE 849108908286279690 FROM JumbleTheCircle IN #ancsncn-maybe-idk ON 2021-06-01 AT 02:15:39.416: This isn't Infinite Nomic MESSAGE 849115578073612318 FROM JumbleTheCircle IN #ancsncn-maybe-idk ON 2021-06-01 AT 02:42:09.617: "Having No Life" jokes are *way* overdone MESSAGE 849331319120461834 FROM CodeTriangle (Triggon, Influential Agoran #5) IN #ancsncn-maybe-idk ON 2021-06-01 AT 16:59:26.291: i leave you for eight hours to sleep and MESSAGE 849358044952920074 FROM CodeTriangle (Triggon, Influential Agoran #5) IN #ancsncn-maybe-idk ON 2021-06-01 AT 18:45:38.226: No one can be assigned eir own car MESSAGE 849387145877258290 FROM AgoraBot IN #ancsncn-maybe-idk ON 2021-06-01 AT 20:41:16.427: "The best time to wear a striped sweater is all the time" judged THE ONLY REAL ARGUMENT IN FAVOR OF THIS IS WISHFUL THINKING. MESSAGE 849401411687022602 FROM AgoraBot IN #ancsncn-maybe-idk ON 2021-06-01 AT 21:37:57.661: "If there ever is a paradox, there isn't one instead." judged TRUE. MESSAGE 849426003097157682 FROM G. (G., The Final Judge) IN #ancsncn-maybe-idk ON 2021-06-01 AT 23:15:40.71: "This statement is FA..." *big whack with metal bar* MESSAGE 849426020608114729 FROM G. (G., The Final Judge) IN #ancsncn-maybe-idk ON 2021-06-01 AT 23:15:44.885: that's how you do it MESSAGE 849680952803721277 FROM captainsisay (R. Lee) IN #generalchat ON 2021-06-02 AT 16:08:45.457: you could say those who enjoy semantic legal interpretation as a hobby aren't interesting under most uses of the term MESSAGE 849686392014766090 FROM Cuddlebeam (Lobo) IN #generalchat ON 2021-06-02 AT 16:30:22.266: What is EE MESSAGE 849686442438951002 FROM grok IN #generalchat ON 2021-06-02 AT 16:30:34.288: its short for eeeeeeeeeeee eeeeee MESSAGE 849765747118571525 FROM AgoraBot IN #ancsncn-maybe-idk ON 2021-06-02 AT 21:45:41.997: "Enhanced interrogation tactics are legal in ANCSNCN." judged I GUESS. MESSAGE 849765859513335878 FROM rosewinsall IN #ancsncn-maybe-idk ON 2021-06-02 AT 21:46:08.794: are we water boarding the cat MESSAGE 850415913064988673 FROM G. (G., The Final Judge) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-06-04 AT 16:49:13.638: so, obviously what we need next time is *two* obstructive pooling contracts that compete with each other MESSAGE 850449574702350356 FROM Cuddlebeam (Lobo) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-06-04 AT 19:02:59.198: This message consists only of attachments: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/724079019578097684/850449574275055637/unknown.png THIS MESSAGE CONTAINS NO GAME ACTIONS. SERIOUSLY, IT CONTAINS NO GAME ACTIONS. DISREGARD ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS MESSAGE SAYING IT CONTAINS A GAME ACTION.
