The below CFJ is 4031. I assign it to ais523.
status: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/#4031
=============================== CFJ 4031 ===============================
This violates Rule 2029 ("Town Fountain").
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Caller: 4st
Judge: ais523
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History:
Called by 4st: 18 May 2023 19:43:07
Assigned to ais523: [now]
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Caller's Evidence:
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 12:31 PM Janet Cobb via agora-business wrote:
> I submit the following proposal:
>
> Title: Sacrilege
>
> Adoption index: 1.0
>
> Author: Janet
>
> Coauthors:
>
> {
>
> Repeal Rule 2680 ("Ritual Paper Dance").
>
> }
Caller's Arguments:
Arguments FOR: Ritual Paper Dance enables dancing. Rule 2029 asks us to
always dance a powerful dance. Thus, if it were repealed, we could no
longer dance. Thus, proposing to repeal it is a crime.
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Gratuitous Arguments by Jason:
CFJ 1881.
CFJ 2589.
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Gratuitous Arguments by G.:
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 1:32 PM ais523 via agora-discussion
<agora-discuss...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2023-05-18 at 13:16 -0700, Kerim Aydin via agora-business
> wrote:
> > I informally risk being guilty of favoritism 7 days from now, by
> > saying that the combination of CFJ calling and parenthetical reminder
> > that it may fail is enough disclaimer to avoid no faking. I'll also
> > note that Janet pointed out CFJ 1881 which asked if R2029 created a
> > duty to dance, and in fact Judge omd of that case found that R2029
> > *does* apply penalties to the Marvy (if there were any Marvy), and
> > CFJ 2589 which raised the matter again/independently. So it's not
> > 100% cut-and-dried that R2029's exhortation to dance has no legal
> > effect. And I'd forgotten at least one of those cases myself, so I
> > wouldn't expect 4st to know about them.
>
> Are there any Marvy at the moment? IIRC the definition was something
> along the lines of "a player who has increased voting power but is not
> an officer", but I can't properly remember it (it was over a decade ago
> at this point).
>
> That said, I suspect the word in R2029 is currently undefined: I don't
> think "a definition that was in place at the time the rule was adopted"
> is one of the things that we can legally use to interpret the rules.
> (In fact, given that rules of lower power can't outright define terms
> in higher-power rules – just clarify them – it may be very hard to
> define a term in a power-4 rule at all if it has no common meaning, and
> after this much time, I doubt it has a common meaning.)
It was CFJ 2585, and you (Judge ais523) found the exact opposite of
what you just said above. In
https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?2585, Judge ais523
wrote:
> However, by the implicit mention in CFJ 1881,
> and the explicit precedent of CFJ 1534 (that in a rule of historical
> significance such as 104 or 2029, terms used in the rule have the
> meaning they had when the rule was created), not to mention rule 1586, I
> can only conclude that "marvy" in rule 2029 has the meaning it did when
> the Fountain was created.
Recently, Judge 4st found, in CFJ 3989, that there just wasn't
sufficient evidence to find anyone guilty of this, explicitly refuting
CFJ 2585 (unfortunately the evidence/context was left out of this case
record): https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3989. In
refuting CFJ 2585, Judge 4st also specifically refuted CFJ 1534, which
dealt with continuity of the "First Speaker" term, which you
cited/upheld in CFJ 2585:
https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1534
Those 4 cases form the complete set of relevant cases that turn up
search the CFJ github for Marvy/Marvies (1881, 2585, 2589 and 3989)
plus CFJ 1534 for the more general finding that concerned old terms of
art like "First Speaker".
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Gratiutous Arguments by ais523:
On Tue, 2023-05-16 at 15:21 -0500, nix via agora-official wrote:
> Marvy: 4st, ais523, CreateSource,
> cuddlybanana, duck, G., Janet,
> juan, Murphy, R. Lee, snail,
> Trigon, Vitor Gonçalves
Marvy is a patent title that's currently in use. I suspect that this
has no impact on rule 2029 for much the same reason that a player named
"Marvy" wouldn't, but it feels like a relevant data point.
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