Erich Waelde <ew.fo...@nassur.net> writes:
> Hi,
>
> On 03/20/2013 11:29 PM, Enoch wrote:
>> Hello AmForth-ers:
>>
>> Did any of you put "wordlists" into a good use?
>
> yes. I use this to create a separate wordlist, which
> is used to parse a special source code structure. I need
> a special wordlist, because I need to *temporarily* "overload"
> the meaning of some important words.
>
> I have also used this to reduce the available wordlist on
> the serial interface after startup.
>
> Also, Lubos Pekny (forth.cz) uses wordlists to separate
> things.
So we all agree that wordlists are important. What I asked myself was
how to make them easier to use.
>> I suspect the answer is no for a simple reason. To use it, say, to
>> create a private "scope" ("namespace") of words / variables / constants
>> one needs to wrap each dictionary entry with calls to get-current,
>> get-order, set-current, set-order, ... too much trouble.
>>
>> What if we decide that all names that begin with a tilde (~) should
>> *automatically* be created into a specific private wordlist. How can we
>> accomplish that?
>
> Well. I do use a number of words myself starting with ~ (tilde). And
> I do not agree at all, that creating special prefixes *for everyone*
> and do something entirely different with those words,
> is the way to go. Even if I need to explicitly enable the feature,
> I do not want to have the freedom of choosing token names stumpled upon.
> Remember the FORTRAN rule of "undeclared variables starting with [I-N]
> are assumed integer"? How awkward. Can I at least choose the prefix
> freely? Can it be more than one character? Recognizers would be the
> way to go, I think.
The thought of imposing naming conventions on other programmers did not
even cross my mind :-)
> Who stops you from implementing this for your use and put the
> resulting code into a message on the list ? (reminder: I will not
> look at code elsewhere) And why do you want your solution to be
> included into the amforth distribution and *enabled by default*?
I will contribute my code and will let Matthias decide on its worthiness
and yes, I can live with a rejection :-)
Why do I want to have "my" solutions included into the AmForth
distribution... I am puzzled by this question -- isn't it the very
nature of OSS development, free competition of ideas. By the way, having
a "benevolent dictator" who decides about the worthiness of ideas /
implementations is well rooted into the OSS culture too.
If code is short it will go to the mailing list. If it is long, I
disagree, its place is a seperate "pastebin".
> What use cases for the suggested feature are you currently looking at?
1. Keeping certain words/variable/constants private, i.e., unknown
outside a certain source file.
2. In a large library, say, graphic library, put all public words/... on
a seperate wordlist.
> Are there other ways to accomplish your goal? Why is this way the
> ultimate thing to do?
I suggested a kernel hack but I can see high level help in handling
wordlists too. How do you utilitize wordlists, using raw get-current,
set-current, etc. calls?
> Imho Forth is about simplicity. You suggest to add a bit of complexity
> (automagic different behaviour).
Default behavior would be set-current (of-course).
>> Here's my suggestion for your review:
>>
>> If I am correct the kernel word "header ( addr len wid -- voc-link )" is
>> responsible for creating dictionary entries of all kinds. What if this
>> "header" would begin with a call to a (e)deferred word, say, "autoscope"
>> that would examine the new entry name (via "addr len") and would set the
>> "wid" etc. as needed.
>>
>> In the best Forth tradition let this "autoscope" be initially a NOP and
>> allow the programmer to introduce whatever naming scheme he/she desires
>> via a subsequent IS.
>
> But that is a penalty of 1 call to noop for every call of header, and for
> everyone.
Get serious Erich, that's a one-time compile-time penalty :-)
10000 dictionary-entries × 10µS penalty = 0.1s
Regards, Enoch.
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