Erich Waelde <ew.fo...@nassur.net> writes: > Folks, > > On 02/18/2014 10:08 PM, Enoch wrote: >> Hannu Vuolasaho <vuo...@msn.com> writes: >> >>> First thing about topic. >>> >>> The language which you rae using is forth. it is obfuscated already to 99% >>> of people. :) >>> >>> Secondly it would be sad to lose Enoch from community who has given quite >>> many ideas. >>> >>> Thirdly about GPL. >>> >>> I'm not a lawyer but my own research has lead me to think about GPL. It is >>> pain to work if doing stuff commercially for washing machines. However I've >>> done some washing machine maker-robots with GPL >>> code, provided code and they have been happy. And company where I made this >>> has still support contract. >>> >>>> To: amforth-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>>> From: i...@hotmail.com >>>> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:44:53 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [Amforth] Dictionary names obfuscation >>> >>>> Changes to your kernel I make constantly public (amforth-shadow on >>>> github) but "my dishwasher code" which a customer pays to develop I >>>> cannot disclose. >>> >>> Your : washer wash rinse spin ; may have any license as long you can change >>> it. >>> When AmForth interprets it and it is compiled to flash GPL has catched it. >>> It is part of binary object and GPL says sources for binary must be >>> distributed. >>> >>> Tradiotionally in C world this catches even linking. Only way to use some >>> propietary library, is to write some kind of wrapper and talk to it through >>> socket, pipe etc. >>> >>> Now let's have something similar in embedded world. Let's put another MCU >>> which answers through UART. >>> >>> propably not working example but you get the idea. >>> >>> : helper key dup 1 = if wash else dup 2 = if rinse else 3 = if spin else ." >>> oops " then then then ; >>> : washer char s char r char w emit helper emit helper emit helper ; >>> >>> You have separated the important stuff from trivial stuff. The secret >>> washer workflow is in another chip and you GPL software interprets that >>> chip. >>> >>>> >>>> As you are the sole copyright holder you can put extra conditions on the >>>> use of your code (such as a requirement to disclose >>>> non-derived/indepedndent "diswasher code"). You will force me to fork >>>> immediately -- it's your call -- I will regret such a decision very >>>> much. >>> >>> How do you fork from GPL to non GPL? the GPL sticks on your fork >>> too. You have to do complete rewrite with your own favourite license. >> >> Consultant -> Diswasher Manufacturer -> Home-Owner >> >> Demanding that any consultant produced code that GPL'ed AmForth compiles >> and run by the manufacturer be disclosed in source form to the >> Home-Owner goes beyond GPLv2. If that is what Matthias demands and puts >> that in writing on his website he will immediately cut off from his >> project all consultants. > > > Consultant writes code for Manufacturer. Consultant uses GPL component, > so he will need to distribute this code to the Manufacturer (on request, > but I as manufacturer want the source code anyway). Consultant is getting > paid, hopefully, and all is well. > > Now: manufacturer creates a product with said code. He needs to ship a note > with the product, stating that some/all software is ruled by GPL, right? > At least that's what I see with my printserver and other stuff. Now Home > Owner is in a position to request that code. (He is in that position even > if he did not know about the GPL components upfront). The code written by > Consultant is now *not* used for internal use only, it is sold in a product. > > In the "C" case: The compiled binary of the C code is > a. compiled by gcc, say (gcc being GPL software) and > b. linked against you own lib or a lib with *L*GPL > Then everything is nice and fine, because your code and the binary are > not ruled by GPL. (Think: gcc can be replaced by another compiler, lib > can be replaced by another library). > > In the "AmForth" case (and if I'm not mistaken in any Forth case) the > binary is "AmForth + your code in compiled form". This thing is ruled > by the Forth systems license, i.e. GPL in the AmForth case. What is so > difficult about that? > > The example in the next message: >> ... that a "Google Maps" like product must disclose its >> source code because it runs on an Android GPLv2 like Linux. > This reasoning is incorrect, because the kernel is the kernel. > That code is available. > And all the rest of Android is linked to a google C library, not glibc, > compiled by gcc or any other compiler. This is the same as the > "C" case above. > > > I'm being puzzled by the "surprise" moment this whole thread seems to > imply. In my Forth trainings I tell people upfront, that AmForth is > GPL, and if they have a commercial product in mind that they should > definitely think about a commercial Forth for precisely the reasons > given above. > > Cheers, > Erich > > > PS: Isn't GPL there exactly for the reason, that GPL code cannot be > turned into a commercial product, unless the source code is distributed > with the product? >
Dear Erich, Let me begin with some wikipedia quotes from <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License>: "software running as an application program under a GPL-licensed operating system such as Linux is not required to be licensed under GPL or to be distributed with source-code availability" ... "applications running on it are not considered derivative works". AmForth is an operating system. That DishWasher program is an application. Thus, if one wishes to turn AmForth into a hostile environment for running commercial grade applications GPLv2 won't be enough. Please let's waste no more time on this topic. It started out with a technical discussion what to do about dictionary names and here we are talking legal mumbo jumbo :-) Regards, Enoch. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Managing the Performance of Cloud-Based Applications Take advantage of what the Cloud has to offer - Avoid Common Pitfalls. Read the Whitepaper. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=121054471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/ Amforth-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
