New User 101, Any adverse effect on visitors to the site caused by my 5 seconds in the Sun would be nothing compared to that caused by posts containing negative personal comments.
All new users start from a base of ignorance, ask silly questions, only absorb a fraction of the manual and make mountains out of mouse turds. Every single one of them will have a different opinion of the program after one year. Nothing will lose their custom quicker than showing them disrespect. Thus endith New User 101. ******************************************************************** --- In amibroker@yahoogroups.com, Ken Close <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You might expand your "thinking out of the box" process to realize several > points, not excused by hanging out a "newcomers label". > > First, this is not a "creative or problem solving" session you are > broadcasting to, and in fact, your critical comments (not based on lots of > experience with the program) could be viewed by other newcomers or browsers > as "truth" and thus detract from Tomasz' marketing his program, which is his > livelihood. Second, if you spent some time reading instead of criticizing, > you would notice that a "norm" here (you understand norms of groups, yes?) > is that suggestions for improvement can be made in several ways, but carry > the most credibility when they are phrased politely, do not detract, and > have also been sent to the suggestions email address so they can be logged > in. > > You will find that newcomers are welcome and receive TONS of help and > support, but that newcomers who burst in and throw arguments around, in the > guise of "logical debate" will fare less well. > > From your comments, you sound like you get to the logic of things, in which > case, instead of trying to win a debate with the author of the program (or > even in response to this reply), you might pose your comments in pro and con > format, illustrating the benefits and costs, and trying persuasion instead > of assertion. This usually works well. > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: amibroker@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of brian.z123 > Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 10:47 PM > To: amibroker@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [amibroker] Re: Indicator Maintenance > > Hello Tomasz, > > Thanks for your reply and consideration of my points. > > I made it quite clear that I was referring to 'industry standard' > features that are lacking in the program in general and the workspace in > particular so it is not a fair response that you only refer to a few > particular features that are actually available in one 'pane' of the > workspace alone. > > I specifically acknowledged that I was wearing my 'new user' hat and that my > arguments were 'off the top of my head' (it is generally accepted in > 'creative or problem solving' sessions that it is best not to censor the > output in the intitial phase). > I don't think you will find one single example in any post I have made in > any forum where I have failed to back up my opening 'silly' > statements if challenged (there are one or two exceptions where I withdrew > but that was done to protect others, not me). > I also already conceded; 'That (my comments are) of course ... only a > personal opinion and perhaps my views will change as I spend more time in > the program.' > > Ergonomics is a relatively new word. > One way it is used is as a measure of 'energy efficiency within work > processes'. > That is what I meant when I used it and within the context of computer > programs my measure of ergonomic efficiency is the number of mouse clicks > required to perform a set task and also the ease with which we can replicate > that task at a later date (from memory?) > > My Office assistant is turned off and always has been. > > I stand by my comments that AB lacks ergonomics, training and detail in part > or partss. > > > My Proposition: > > My proposition is that 'Microsoft like' GUI operating features are a > defacto industry standard (sorry Mac, Linux users etc - I don't know > anything about those systems). > My expectation of programs is that they will equal or surpass > the 'industry standard'. > Of course that is a very general statement that can't be easily > debated without specific examples and in this case I didn't provide > any. > All I ask, at any time, is that each suggestion is considered on its > own merit and not 'marked' according to the status of the poster or > the prejudices of individual forum members. > My confidence in that area is a little down at the moment. > > > Re: a specific example from within the database of existing posts > > ****************************************************************** > > Post #195 from the feedback center. > subject - delete old databases from file menu > > I said: > Consider selection of partial deletions for anything than can be > separated out i.e retain data and delete categories > (broker workspace) and vice-versa, layouts? > > Reason. > > Easy management of old/trial databases. > Allow removal of parts of database that are known to be incorrect > while retaining other parts. > If database is current or default AB will 'know' and make > announcement and/or adjustment. > > > You said: > REPLY by Tomasz Janeczko > status - Closed > Status - Functionality exists > > If you mean most recently used database list in File menu - non- > existing folders ALREADY gets deleted from the menu. > Just delete the directory using Windows explorer and next time you > run AmiBroker it won't show up in the File menu. > > ******************************************************************* > > Admittedly I did not explain myself very well at the feedback > center, but I did follow up later with an email via support that > clarified and detailed my case. > You could have also asked for further clarification at the feedback > center if you weren't sure what I meant. > > > What is the 'industry standard' for file management within programs? > > Go to the program file menu and delete the old program > files/databases that the user no longer requires. > View all of the program files/databases in a hierarchical tree and > enact commands from there. > > What is the AB standard? > > Close AB (or go out of AB?), go to Windows Explorer and delete old > databases from there. > > What specific delete features could AB provide that MS can not be > expected to? > > If the user attempts to delete a database that is selected in AB > preferences as the default, Windows Explorer will not delete it. > If file/delete existed in AB the user could be given a message 'this > database can not be deleted as it is the default. To delete this > database go to tools etc'. > > The AB database folder also contains components that have extra > relevance to the user. The user might want to keep the symbol > lists/categories and just delete all price data. > File/delete in AB could provide users with appropriate delete > options to do that type of thing and also warn as to the > consequences of each action. > > The above, existing case, is a reasonable example of the 'industry > standard'/AB gap. > At the least it is worthy of consideration and discussion. > If I don't post any new examples in the future it will only be > because I choose to conserve my energy and/or that I am not entirely > comfortable in the feedback center (it is not democratic enough for > my liking). > > Regards, > > BrianB2. > > > --- In amibroker@yahoogroups.com, "Tomasz Janeczko" <groups@> > wrote: > > > > > In my opinion AB lacks many of the ergonomic features that have > > > become defacto industry standards elsewhere e.g. database > > > management, file and folder management (copy, paste, delete, > drag & > > > drop, autobackup/recovery, right click properties, exchange > formula > > > files etc). > > > > What? Delete, drag drop, move (rename), new file/new folder > > and all file functions are available > > from Chart menu. TO drag-drop file from one folder to another use > > RIGHT MOUSE BUTTON DRAG (not left - left is used for chart > overlay). > > > > > However Tomasz didn't appear to be amenable to ergonomic > suggestions. > > > > You are here way too short to say things like that. Newcomers are > so quick to judge. > > > > Go watch the history of the software. I have implemented tens of > thousands > > of improvements. Including 'ergonomic' ones. > > Go to Release Notes document and see the list of improvements > > that were just added over last 5 years (note that AB is around for > 11 years) > > > > Also what is ergononic for you it is not ergonomic for somebody > else. > > For example, I hate ergonomic in the "Office Assistant"-way. This > is kind of "ergonomic" > > is counter-productive. And I know lots of people who think the > same. > > > > Give yourself at least ONE YEAR of AmiBroker experience and THEN > start > > talking about ergonomics. You will soon find that things are more > well-thought that > > you ever dreamt about. > > > > Best regards, > > Tomasz Janeczko > > amibroker.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "brian.z123" <brian.z123@> > > To: <amibroker@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 1:59 AM > > Subject: [amibroker] Re: Indicator Maintenance > > > > > > > Hello John. > > > > > > Valuing the benefits of community effort, and wanting to > contribute > > > something in that area, I recently promised/threatened Tomasz I > > > would make some suggestions through the eyes of a new user, > while I > > > was fresh to the program. > > > I did this mainly through the feedback centre (as BrianB2) and > took > > > the approach of throwing the suggestions up on a first response > > > basis without too much censorship. > > > I was always prepared to do the hard work of translating those > > > suggestions into researched proposals and expanding the scope if > > > asked. > > > > > > My main reason for coming to AB was because of it's hardcore > > > analytical and trading features, and my opinion is that this is > it's > > > main area of strength. > > > However most of my suggestions, as a new user, eventually > aligned > > > themselves under three headings; training, detailing and > ergonomics. > > > Obviously 'new users' are not in a position to comment on the > core > > > analytical features. > > > In my opinion AB lacks many of the ergonomic features that have > > > become defacto industry standards elsewhere e.g. database > > > management, file and folder management (copy, paste, delete, > drag & > > > drop, autobackup/recovery, right click properties, exchange > formula > > > files etc). > > > This is particularly evident in the workspace environment. > > > I personally find this very frustrating as manually managing > > > maintenance duties takes a lot of energy and focus away from > system > > > design/testing and ultimately trading. > > > In view of what is at stake I believe these features are more > > > important in 'trading' programs than they are in everyday > programs. > > > > > > However Tomasz didn't appear to be amenable to ergonomic > suggestions. > > > My understanding is that they are not aligned to his design > > > philosophy for the program, but he might like to comment on that > for > > > himself. > > > As a matter of principle I do respect the right of any business > > > owner to live and die by their own philosophies. > > > On that basis I agreed to disagree and moved on. > > > I do think there is a danger, for AB, in that if other programs > come > > > along that match AB's analytical power while also offering > ergonomic > > > features, AB may notbe able to maintain its competitive place in > the > > > market. > > > That of course is only a personal opinion and perhaps my views > will > > > change as I spend more time in the program. > > > There are also a lot of ifs in that proposition. > > > > > > Providing Tomasz does agree to a re-design of the > > > workspace/preference setting features I would definitely help by > > > doing some homework and submitting some considered suggestions. > > > > > > Thanks for your efforts. > > > I am generally supportive of positive and pro-active people. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > BrianB2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In amibroker@yahoogroups.com, "John R" <jr-ta@> wrote: > > >> > > >> Having just corrupted some of my indicators yet again I thought > I > > > would post > > >> some personal observations and suggested improvements on AB > > > indicator > > >> maintenance. I am posting here rather than direct to the AB > > > suggestions box > > >> to get the POV of other users. Hopefully others may be able to > > > offer some > > >> tips on best practice or point out the error of my ways and > also > > > if enough > > >> users chime in we can then compile a list of agreed suggestions > > > for TJ to > > >> consider. > > >> > > >> OK here are my observations:- > > >> > > >> It is *far* too easy to corrupt indicators without even > realising > > > it. I bet > > >> nearly everyone has done this. For those who think you have > never > > > done it > > >> try checking thru the code of all your custom and builtin > > > indicators and see > > >> if they contain what you expect ;-) > > >> > > >> In the early days of AB when we only had slots for a few custom > > > indicators > > >> (20 was it?) maintenance was not a problem. But with large and > > > increasing > > >> numbers of indicators I find accurate maintenance a real > problem. > > > In > > >> addition we have systems, explorations, scans, filters and > those > > > which do > > >> combinations. Over time I have tried various methods of file > > > suffixes, > > >> prefixes, directories etc. to try and keep things under control > > > but never > > >> been entirely happy with it. My feeling is there must be a > better > > > more > > >> organised solution with maybe separate directories for these > > > specified via > > >> Preferences. > > >> > > >> One of the big problems I have is indicators getting out of > sync > > > with the > > >> corresponding .afl file on disk. For example it is very easy to > > > make an > > >> amendment to an indicator while testing visually via > charts/guru > > > commentary > > >> and forget to save to the correct afl file on disk. Later when > I > > > come to > > >> system test and copy/paste the code into test afl from disk I > get > > > unexpected > > >> results. BTW I am sure the endless copy/edit/paste operations > will > > > eventally > > >> drive me to complete baldness - my background is in commericial > IT > > > systems > > >> development so it goes very much against the grain when you > cannot > > > define a > > >> formula/module just once and then just refrence it wherever > > > required. TJ > > >> has said he will add this facility but will I have any hair > left > > > by then ;^) > > >> > > >> > > >> Suggested improvements:- > > >> > > >> In IB add a Copy button to enable a new version of an indictaor > to > > > be > > >> created quickly. Default new name = old name with numeric > suffice > > > e.g. > > >> HolyGrail[2] > > >> > > >> In indicator browse list add columns for date and time last > > > modified. Allow > > >> sorting on name column or date and time. At present you cannot > > > check dates > > >> or easily determine which indciators you were last working on. > > >> > > >> In indicator browse list add columns for In quick list, Uses > > > builtin code, > > >> Use formula only. At present you must laboriously click down > thru > > > every list > > >> item to determine these. > > >> > > >> Provide some protection or warning to prevent unintentional > > > overwriting when > > >> using Load. > > >> > > >> IMO indicators should be directly related by filename to the > > > corresponding > > >> disk file. For example the indicator HolyGrail7 is defined via > the > > > disk file > > >> HolyGrail7.afl Ideally AB preferences would specify the > directory > > > name(s) > > >> for custom and standard indicators. This would prevent many > > > maintenance > > >> problems that the current architecture invites and would also > > > facilitate > > >> many other maintance operations (see below). > > >> > > >> Facility to bulk load indicators from disk files into AB. i.e. > > > browse and > > >> select multiple .afl disk files which are then loaded into > > > corresponding > > >> custom or builtin indicator names. > > >> > > >> Facility to bulk copy indicators from AB to disk files i.e. > > > browse and > > >> select multiple AB indictors which are then copied to selected > > > windows > > >> directory. > > >> > > >> Allow the default directories for custom and bulitin indicators > to > > > be > > >> specified via Preferences. Maybe also systems, explorations, > > > scans....? > > >> > > >> > > >> All POVs welcome. > > >> > > >> John > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that this group is for discussion between users only. > > > > > > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to > > > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > > > > > > For other support material please check also: > > > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that this group is for discussion between users only. > > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > > For other support material please check also: > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > Please note that this group is for discussion between users only. To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com For other support material please check also: http://www.amibroker.com/support.html Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
