EW = Elliott Wave
So9 = Square of Nine

As for cutoff points, by definition there must be a cutoff because one tick 
does not a pattern make.  But in practical terms it is below the smallest 
timeframe that most deal with (e.g., 5 minute).  Not worth worrying about, imo, 
as there are many more important factors at play.

Being skeptical about something is fine but requires a shot at an objective 
basis to get it out of the "I had a dream" state.  One normally grounds such 
conclusions on mucho experience or statistics.

Bill

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "brian_z111" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:46 AM
Subject: [amibroker] Re: Pattern Searching within AB


> Bill,
> 
> I have my own concept of waves and cycles but I do agree that as long 
> as there is sufficient volume they will form, even below daily 
> timeframes. There is a cut off point though, below which I expect 
> them to be fragmental, and below that where they don't exist at all.
> 
> (I am interested to know what happens below the cut off point as 
> well).
> 
> I have also found that while waves and cycles are generally 
> characterized by variance there is an underlying sameness about them 
> (almost like a template that varies in dimension rather than shape).
> 
> (I don't use Fibonacci - I am sceptical but maybe we can swap notes 
> on that some day).
> 
> What is EW and So9?
> 
> brian_z 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In [email protected], "wavemechanic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
>>
>> Herman:
>> 
>> RT systems may or may not work for EOD or higher times.  Depending 
> on the time frame, indicator-based system parameters often tend to be 
> time frame specific.  On the other hand, systems based on price 
> patterns and levels (e.g., Fibonacci patterns, triangles, EW, So9, 
> etc.) are fractal and work very well for all time frames.
>> 
>> Bill
>>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>>   From: Herman 
>>   To: brian_z111 
>>   Cc: [email protected] 
>>   Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 6:12 AM
>>   Subject: Re: [amibroker] Re: Pattern Searching within AB
>> 
>> 
>>   without specific reference to Brian's email below, in my limited 
> experience I found that:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   1) EOD bars are distinctly different from intraday bars. imo, the 
> primary reason for this is that, except perhaps at the market open or 
> close, intraday bars are not synchronized at any point in time. EOD 
> bars have distinct patterns that can be traded but do not exist in 
> intraday bars, i.e., Real-time systems do not necessarily work in the 
> daily time frame, or vise versa.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   2) Intraday bars gain random content quickly when you reduce the 
> period to less than about 3 minutes. At which period this happens 
> depends also on volume.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   3) In very short time frames, say less than 1-2 minutes, data and 
> Internet delays start to play a major role. In this range it is 
> possible to develop HG systems with local data that fail in real-
> trading. See my post on this on the UKB. Delays also vary with the 
> number of stocks you trade (your system's resources) and market 
> volume (at open and close).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   4) While I have never worked with longer than daily bars i know 
> that daily bars have features that do not, and cannot, exist in 
> weekly and longer time frames. Similarly, weekly and longer periods 
> may have their own unique features.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   5) imo, the OHLC bar structure is obsolete. Imagine the design 
> advantage if you knew the HL precedence. Of course, in the majority 
> of cases, you can be sneaky and calculate HL precedence by assuming 
> that the price follows path of least resistance from the Open to the 
> Close... or subscribe to real-time data.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   best regards,
>> 
>>   herman
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   For tips on developing Real-Time Auto-Trading systems visit:
>> 
>>   http://www.amibroker.org/userkb/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Saturday, March 1, 2008, 11:47:43 PM, you wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > Rounding off my contribution on this topic.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > Most of my work, so far, has been based around EOD data 
> (exclusively in
>> 
>>   > stocks).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > I consider that daily bars are the natural rhythm of the market.
>> 
>>   > I also regard them as nothing more, nor less, than barometers 
> of market
>> 
>>   > sentiment.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > For macro trading, if we look at the markets in weekly/monthly 
> time 
>> 
>>   > frames we are seeing exactly the same information that we see 
> in daily
>> 
>>   > timeframes,except that is an approximate summary.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > Traders who want to see the macro picture with greater accuracy 
> can do
>> 
>>   > this by marking the major pivot points (write code for the 
> daily 
>> 
>>   > timeframe to do that).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > (Sorry I can't provide code at the moment).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > If this is done it is successful, although I concede it is 
> harder to 
>> 
>>   > follow the visual cues because of the limited number of bars 
> that can 
>> 
>>   > be viewed in one screen (technically it is successful but I 
> have no 
>> 
>>   > comment, for or against, it's usefulness for trading). 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > IMO intraday bars, at around the 5 minute mark, are an 
> extension of the
>> 
>>   > daily timeframe and they can be successfully used to finesse 
> entries 
>> 
>>   > and exists for EOD strategies.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > As an aside.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > Re: single bar patterns.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > Once again, IMO, they are a summary (shorthand notation) of the 
>> 
>>   > underlying bar patterns.
>> 
>>   > I have made an effort to train my mind to know what info the 
> single bar
>> 
>>   > patterns are relaying to us, about the 'mood' of the market, in 
> that 
>> 
>>   > timeframe (similar to the way in which musicians read music).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > I don't know exactly how successful I have been, or how much 
> that 
>> 
>>   > impacts on my trading, but it is quite good fun and it does 
> have it's 
>> 
>>   > uses.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > (It is consistent with my intention to strengthen my mental 
>> 
>>   > capabilities, for trading, by not over relying on computer 
> memory).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > From my point of view, very little of what else is available 
>> 
>>   > in 'classical' TA is of any value.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > I consider that the topic (patten recognition) is finite and 
> that at a
>> 
>>   > personal level I have conceptually exhausted the subject (after 
> many 
>> 
>>   > hours of contemplation). That doesn't mean I have exhausted all 
> effort
>> 
>>   > in that area - there are still new patterns (to me) to be found 
> and 
>> 
>>   > more detail to obtain about those I have considered.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > I also consider that macro trading doesn't end there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > There is the other side of the coin.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > If we are relying entirely on patterns, for macro trading, then 
> we are
>> 
>>   > only flying around on one wing (I will comment on supplementary 
> methods
>> 
>>   > somewhere down the track).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > Intra-day trading, however, is another cup of tea.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > The intraday 'patterns' are influenced markedly by the 
> mechanics of the
>> 
>>   > market (exchange hours, overnight cessation of trading, morning 
> versus
>> 
>>   > afternoon session, opening versus close, carryover action from 
> the 
>> 
>>   > previous day etc) so it has some peculiarities of it's own.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > Further to that, at the sub-micro level (tick trading), 
> continuity 
>> 
>>   > breaks down into discrete packages (perhaps there are new 
> things to 
>> 
>>   > find out about that).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > I look forward to Hermans efforts to push that boundary.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > Like Herman I believe that the more we learn about what is 
> ahead of us
>> 
>>   > the more we understand what is behind us.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > brian_z
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > --- In [email protected], "brian_z111" <brian_z111@> 
> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   >> Should be fun.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   >> Not posting against you.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   >> Just a philosophical observation.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   >> In nature, when we zoom in, we move from the discrete to the 
>> 
>>   >> continuous. Order disintegrates at the boundary (objectively 
> we 'see' 
>> 
>>   >> no organizing principality in CHAOS).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   >> In trading, when we zoom in, we move from the, apparently, 
> continuous 
>> 
>>   >> to the discrete.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   >> brian_z
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   > Please note that this group is for discussion between users 
> only.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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> 
> 
> Please note that this group is for discussion between users only.
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