Just proves the theory: Ignorance is bliss.... Mike(y) W3SLK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Candela" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <Amradio@Mailman.Qth.Net> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 9:10 AM Subject: [AMRadio] Fwd: Re: Kitset HF Linear amp.
Group, Well here is what the buyers of this linear amplifier are getting. See Andy's statement below in his own words. I think that tells it all. Jim --- supersparks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: "supersparks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Jim candela" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Kitset HF Linear amp. > Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:30:53 +1300 > > jim, all your goggleygook means zero to me, im only > interested in what my > bird watt meter states, and it states as i claim, im > not about to tell the > bird watt meter company that there meters are in > error. > Not all theory is correct and can be interperated > several ways, but when the > standard test is the use of a bird watt meter then i > choose to run with its > findings, thx andy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim candela" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "supersparks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "Amradio@Mailman.Qth.Net" > <amradio@mailman.qth.net> > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 3:07 PM > Subject: RE: Kitset HF Linear amp. > > > > > > Andy Said at alt.binaries.schematic : > > > > hi again all. > > I have a kitset HF linear amp available, send an > email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] for information and > payment options. > > Disclaimer: These amps cover 3-30mhz, it is > illegal in most countries to > use > > such equipment on the citizen bands.Proper use of > this equipment lays > > entirely with the user. > > > > Heres what you get: > > > > Etched PCB ready to load. > > ALL components. > > Heatsink. > > Full Schematic. > > Parts Layout. > > FEATURES: > > · Broadbanded (3-30 MHz) push-pull design. No > tuning required after a > simple > > one-time setup procedure. > > · Power levels: 100Watts AM, 180Watts PEP. > > · Now includes trimmer adjustable input and output > tuned circuits for > > perfect SWR matching. Just set it and forget it. > > · All mode operation: AM, FM, CW, SSB. > > · Internal SWR protection with rugged transistors. > > · Bias switching lets you choose the most > efficient method for Class C > > (AM/FM/CW) or Class AB (SSB) operation. > > · Carrier operated T/R relay with separate > drop-out timing delays to > > automatically match AM/FM or SSB operation. > > · Switchable ON/OFF operation with LED indicator. > > · Jumper adjustable input network matches 4-10W RF > drive levels for most > > popular HF transceivers. > > · Transient spike protection in mobile use. > > · Double-sided PCB design for excellent RF > stability and voltage > regulation. > > > > Kindest regards andy jackson (RF Radio Engineer) > > > > > > > > Reply by Jim Candela, WD5JKO: > > > > Andy, > > > > You need to provide test data including > schematic, and waveforms while > > running at 100 watts carrier output, and then show > the modulated envelope > at > > 100% peak + (upward) AM modulation (w/o severe > distortion). Do this to the > > alt.binaries.schematic group, not just me. If you > do, I'm sure you will > make > > more sales of your kit, and if the thing really > does that, I'll endorse > your > > kit for any use other than CB. To a CB trucker, a > real 100 watt (carrier) > > amp that modulates to at least 90% peak + is a > treasure. > > > > Now please understand that with a sine wave > audio drive, at 100 % > > modulation the amplifier must peak at 400 watts > PEP, and a watt meter > > (average responding) will read 150 watts. For AM > at 100% modulation, each > > side band is 6 db below the carrier power. As you > know 6 db in power terms > > is 1/4th (or 4), so for a 100 watts carrier power, > you get 25 watts (avg) > in > > each side band. So the carrier stays at 100, and > you get 100+25+25=150 > watts > > average. > > > > Now the crux where your amp will fall short, > is that 400 watts PEP is > > unobtainable. I'm sure you will agree with that > statement. The problem > with > > AM linear amps is that they need the headroom to > peak to 4X the carrier > > power when modulated. This means that the > amplifier output voltage doubles > > from carrier level, and since E^2/R=W, if the > voltage doubles, the power > > quadruples. > > > > Following are the formulas for finding AM > Modulation depth: > > > > PEAK + method: m = 100 * ((Emax - Eavg) / Eavg ) > > > > PEAK - method: m = 100 *((Eavg-Emin)/Eavg) > > > > The above information is not something I made up. > > > > Most amateur transceivers are rated at 100 watts > PEP output for SSB. Most > of > > the ones that include AM state that the maximum > output is 25 watts > carrier. > > This is limited to 25 watts AM because the ALC is > designed to kick in at > 100 > > watts PEP. Some other transceivers change the ALC > from peak responding to > > average responding for AM, and this allows them to > rate AM at 40 watts > > carrier. At 40 watts 100% modulated, you get 160 > watts PEP. Your kit-amp > > should do that fine, but not 100 watts. Don't you > see, or understand what > > I'm talking about? These transceivers all have a > power amplifier board > > similar to yours. > > > > Most CB transceivers will easily modulate to at > least 85%. Using the above > > formulas, does the output of your amplifier do the > same at the power level > > you claim? > > > > The Motorola application notes I referred to at > the hyperlink in my last > > post did show an amplifier running off 13.8 volts, > and ran 100 watts AM. > In > > fact this amplifier is very similar to yours. The > problem with this > though, > > is that when tone modulating, the upward > modulation was limited to 20-25%. > I > > don't call this AM since IT IS OVERLOADED, > COMPRESSED, AND DISTORTED. > > > > > http://pages.prodigy.net/jcandela/AM_Linear/AM%20Linear%20Operation.pdf > > > > > > So how can you continue to stand by your > specifications? They don't > compute. > > I think you mean 100 watts PEP AM, and 180 watts > PEP SSB. If so, then the > > only problem here is that AM is normally rated in > carrier power assuming > the > > designer did the rating while allowing for 4X that > power at modulation > > peaks. So when you say 100 watts AM to you refer > to PEP power, or > > unmodulated carrier power with 100% peak + > modulation capability? > > > > Do you also stand by running the amplifier bias > set to class C on AM? Yes > > you can get away with this because it's really > class B, however the > > crossover distortion from NO bias is there, and > does cause visible > (scope), > > and audible (receiver) distortion. Running SSB in > class B with crossover > > distortion sounds far worse. > > > > Yes I may be an arse at times, that is true. That > however isn't the issue. > > The issue is what you market, and what you say it > does is not possible. I > > know that, and I think you do too. If your half > the engineer that you say > > you are, then you understand what I am talking > about. Then again maybe you > > knew all of this from the beginning, and your > marketing strategy is to > make > > false claims, and sell kits to the uninformed. > > > > Regards, > > Jim Candela > > WD5JKO > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: supersparks > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:51 AM > > To: Jim Candela > > Subject: Re: Kitset HF Linear amp. > > > > > > it works as i say it does, i dont need to validate > my statements to you or > > anyone else, stop being a know it all, no one > likes smart asses, i > garrentee > > my product, that is all that matters here. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Candela" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "supersparks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:34 AM > > Subject: Re: Kitset HF Linear amp. > > > > > > > > > > OK, I am listening. Please explain why I am > incorrect. > > > I think maybe we can both learn something. > > > > > > Jim > > > --- supersparks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > that is incorrect > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "JC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Newsgroups: alt.binaries.schematics.electronic > > > > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 2:41 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Kitset HF Linear amp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beware, this is another splatter making CB > linear > > > > amplifier. Here is why: > > > > > > > > > > >Power levels: 100Watts AM, 180Watts PEP > > > > > > > > > > ** If the power is really 180 watts PEP, > then the > > > > AM carrier power maximum > > > > > is 25% of that or 45 watts ---NOT 100 watts. > In > > > > fact to be clean, and > > > > linear > > > > > I wouldn't run more than 25 watts output on > AM > > > > (100 watts PEP). > > > > > > > > > > >Bias switching lets you choose the most > efficient > > > > method for Class C > > > > > >(AM/FM/CW) or Class AB (SSB) operation. > > > > > > > > > > ** For linear amplification of AM or SSB you > need > > > > class A, or AB ---NOT > > > > > class C > > > > > > > > > > Most CB radios when exciting an amplifier > such as > > > > this will overdrive the > > > > > amplifier, and result in significant > distortion, > > > > and splatter. A 3-6 db > > > > pad > > > > > between the exciter and amplifier is usually > > > > needed to prevent this. Most > > > > CB > > > > > rigs have 15 - 20 watts PEP output (about 4 > watts > > > > carrier AM) -- too much > > > > > for this amp. Very few Ham operators would > buy > > > > this kit. We all know the > > > > end > > > > > users are CB'ers who choose to operate > illegally. > > > > > > > > > > > Now includes trimmer adjustable input and > output > > > > tuned circuits for > > > > > perfect SWR matching. Just set it and forget > it. > > > > > > > > > > ** Yea custom designed to work best between > 27 and > > > > 27.5 Mhz > > > > > > > > > > I have converted several of these boot-leg > CB > > > > linears to use on 10 meters > > > > > AM, and they all required significant effort > to > > > > get the gain, and > > > > linearity > > > > > within accepted amateur radio standards. Of > course > > > > for CB, all that is out > > > > > the window. Just connect and drop the > hammer! "hey > > > > good buddy, your S9+40 > > > > on > > > > > channel 19, and S9 on channels 1, and 40 all > at > > > > the same time!" > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "andy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in > message > > > > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > hi again all. > > > > > > I have a kitset HF linear amp available, > send an > > > > email to > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] for information > and > > > > payment options. > > > > > > Disclaimer: These amps cover 3-30mhz, it > is > > > > illegal in most countries to > > > > > > use > > > > > > such equipment on the citizen bands.Proper > use > > > > of this equipment lays > > > > > > entirely with the user. > > > > > > > > > > > > Heres what you get: > > > > > > > > > > > > Etched PCB ready to load. > > > > > > ALL components. > > > > > > Heatsink. > > > > > > Full Schematic. > > > > > > Parts Layout. > > > > > > FEATURES: > > > > > > · Broadbanded (3-30 MHz) push-pull design. > No > > > > tuning required after a > > > > > > simple > > > > > > one-time setup procedure. > > > > > > · Power levels: 100Watts AM, 180Watts PEP. > > > > > > · Now includes trimmer adjustable input > and > > > > output tuned circuits for > > > > > > perfect SWR matching. Just set it and > forget it. > > > > > > · All mode operation: AM, FM, CW, SSB. > > > > > > · Internal SWR protection with rugged > > > > transistors. > > > > > > · Bias switching lets you choose the most > > > > efficient method for Class C > > > > > > (AM/FM/CW) or Class AB (SSB) operation. > > > > > > · Carrier operated T/R relay with separate > > > > drop-out timing delays to > > > > > > automatically match AM/FM or SSB > operation. > > > > > > · Switchable ON/OFF operation with LED > > > > indicator. > > > > > > · Jumper adjustable input network matches > 4-10W > > > > RF drive levels for most > > > > > > popular HF transceivers. > > > > > > · Transient spike protection in mobile > use. > > > > > > · Double-sided PCB design for excellent RF > > > > stability and voltage > > > > > > regulation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindest regards andy jackson (RF Radio > Engineer) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - > Release Date: 10/25/2005 > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - > Release Date: 10/25/2005 > > > > ______________________________________________________________ AMRadio mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net AMfone Website: http://www.amfone.net AM List Admin: Brian Sherrod/w5ami
